100 Gallon Balcony Pond Build Complete

[crsublette]

1) Obviously. True in any pond. Size alone is a very tiny factor in keeping fish alive. Fish load is a much bigger factor, but still, just one factor. Low fish load by itself is not a good plan.

2) True for any well maintained pond of any size and fish load.

There are tons of stores that don't care if fish die. I personally think that has more to do with their abilities than tank size. I assume if they 2x, 5x 10x their tank sizes they'd still have a ton of losses.

I was more referring to the more serious fish retailers, like Koi retailers like Tse Koi in San Jose CA. In business for many years, maybe $300K in fish stock, very heavy fish loads, water always perfect, carry stock for months. And they have surprisingly little filtration compared to their fish loads. The trick I think is they're very knowledgeable about Koi rearing.

It can be done, is very common, and has been done for many years.

1) Obviously. True in any pond. Size alone is a very tiny factor in keeping fish alive. Fish load is a much bigger factor, but still, just one factor. Low fish load by itself is not a good plan.


To be more specific, the missing caveat is the extent of micromanagement including the exchange of fish and all of the rest of it.


2) True for any well maintained pond of any size and fish load.

You can agree at least there are degrees to management. This was the point I was trying to make since I was assuming growers are not necessarily selling their fish in containers of 1 fish per 5,000 gallons unless talking primarily a grower who only deals with mud ponds.

 

[crsublette]

Now I am no where near an expert when it comes to ponds. Afterall, this is my first "pond". The koi have been thriving for the past 3 months. My water tests perfect every time I test it. I have only had to do 1 real water change and clean the filter twice. There is nothing wrong with this setup at all. How do you think pond stores keep their 300 koi in 300 gallon buckets? They don't all die. Yes, they're sold, but then they're also replaced. It IS possible to overstock a pond if you do it properly and keep the health of the fish in mind.

More likely you do not see the dead ones since they are scooped out in the early morning before they are sold and, if it is a more professional outfit where they have thousands of dollars in those assets, then those 300 koi likely do not remain in the 300 gallon bucket for weeks upon weeks and months on end. If they do, as is done with the greenhouses in Japan, then there is a significant volume of micromanaging involved.

Also, if they have the choice, then they are quite likely micromanaging the carbonates like crazy in those 300 gallon buckets. Quite likely not, or very minimally, feeding the fish, that is not a nutritional amount at all for the fish to thrive rather than survive. Otherwise, if they are properly feeding the fish, then they are quite likely pushing their KH up to around ~400ppm every morning (which is fine) or using a significant volume of a slow dissolving carbonate product while monitoring the water's alkalinity every day and either option in combination with a noticeably, or extremely, high flow through water change system and they quite likely have a quite effecient particulate mechanical filtration so to remove the waste prior to it dissolving into its constituent by-products.


I am a big fan of overstocking a pond, but water chemistry does not lie. X amount of biological activity will absolutely consume Y amount of carbonates and minerals depending on the filtration design. Personally, I think the quality of filtration and degree of water management determines if a pond is overstock rather than the actual fish density.

So, YES, " it IS possible to overstock a pond if you do it properly and keep the health of the fish in mind. "

Also, 50~100% daily water changes can be quite common in the aquarium hobby in an effort to manage an overstocked aquarium.

As I recall, Sarin, you mentioned you will be transplanting the fish once they get too big. So, this is a very good thing.


So, now, you have peaked my curiousity that leads me to ask:

Since you are feeding once a day, how many ounces of food and protein quality in the food is this ??

What is your source water's alkalinity ??


(( please do not be offended by my bold styling. I am aiming to bring in focus to the questions. ))


To simply throw out a thread like this, then to say "see it works" with quite poor notations and explanations, this is quite a dangerous thing to do and is the reason why there is so much bad internet advice in this hobby. Although, I do give bogs more of the benefit of the doubt than I probably should, that is being a benefit, since I have not yet read anyone able to properly explain it beyond bickering on results based upon quite loose reasoning, except Dr. Kevin Novak did provide a decent explanation. However, if bogs were always absolutely terrible as he suggests, then we would be flooded with results of constant bog failures and tremendous foam buildup as it is done with other filtration devices, which I have only seen the occasional failure due to the bog that is also at the same frequency of failure from other filtration types for a multitude of reasons that is unique to the design. Alas, I have digressed...

It is very important to be thorough when it comes to these type of challenging threads and being capable of explaining the positioning beyond a couple of sentences, that involves proper enough notating so that others can replicate the experiment with the same success or results.

 

[Waterbug]

I wouldn't say that, actually I think, and you know I've stated this many times, that you tend to have a lot of good ideas, not mystifying at all.

Mystifying in a broad sense, like most, not all posts, seem to be surprised by ideas that have been around a long time, widely documented on the web, kind of standard type stuff in other forums. You specifically always seem willing to at least consider ideas. But there are lots of topics, rocks in the bottom of pond, small ponds with Koi, etc., that just get the standard knee jerk responses. And these same responses are repeated over and over again for years and years even though the simplest of thought and/or research would greatly improve responses.

In a fair number of posts where people come right out and say they don't believe in data or testing and instead just look at water to determine if it's OK.

The self proclaimed expert comes more from how you often tend to belittle other members here with condescending statements.

I agree. But I would add some context, not to completely excuse my lack of patience.

When a post is absolutely bat crazy dumb, easily proven, and really endangers fish or creates a crap pond, there aren't a lot of options in this type forum.

I can go with a personal attack "that's the dumbest thing ever posted" which does no good for anyone and is just plain mean.

I can try the reasoned approach. Here are the links, data, etc. But in this forum there will be 10 other posts saying "oh yeah, well I added a slice of lemon to my pond and my ammonia is -20." Where as in another forum like Koiphen it's much more likely to be followed by posts basically giving more detailed info or different perspectives. Things that can be discussed and debated. It simply not possible to have a rational discussion with "lemon lowered my ammonia to -20." That type of person is going to get mad if you question any part of that. I don't even want to try.

But, for readers who come here and never post I sometimes think it'd worth pointing out the obvious. "There no data showing lemon lowers ammonia" I just called the poster a lair from their perspective, but that's OK with me because they are. And I'd add "water can't have negative ammonia" and just to drive the point home maybe add "unless you live in an alternate universe" only because saying "you are dumber than a post" would be even more hurtful. I do want to convey displeasure with them telling crap to people. I like the hobby, I'd like to see fewer ponds filled in because of all the crap info.

When I person posts an opinion as a fact there's no point to discussion. Not in any forum. Best you can do is post the data and references. But almost no one reads those, or cares if it's reason. Questioning a fact that is actually an opinion is a personal insult. No way around it. On the other hand a person posting an idea shouldn't have any problem having it questioned. Not like it was their idea. It came from other sources. If I post E=mc2 and someone calls it a dumb idea they've insulted Einstein, not me.

You can spot the difference a mile away. In this thread anyone could have done a little Googling and found some data that showed Koi in a 100 gal container will always cause the fish to die. And wouldn't several people have loved to have been able to put me in my place? That would have been attacking my idea and I would have had to concede the point. Instead nasty personal attacks flow because they're dead wrong and know it. So insecure in their knowledge they have no choice but to attack. A flame war. So common it had to be one of the first internet terms coined.

I'm aware of my sometimes condescending manner. Not really apologizing. I would in fact very much like to go off on many posts in a big way. Some truly epic dumb stuff gets posted. But that would do no good. If I thought not being blunt, confrontational or even condescending would actually open a single person's mind I would try it more. But I've never seen a blue bird on my shoulder attitude help improve pond info. Confrontation of an idea often at least gets the poster to think about what they're saying even if nastiness is their only response. And that helps show how secure they are in their facts, so there is value imo.

And finally the most common. If I agree with a post the poster says I'm a genius. If I disagree with a post I'm condescending, which I probably am, but I think it's given more weight than it deserves. But that has to be expected.
.

Remember, you were the one who first referred to the others as "experts", even though no one claimed to be such. That's the reason I voiced a reluctance to agree with you. Skip those kind of statement and I can

You mean no one wrote "I'm an expert"? Posting "that pond is too small for koi, they're all going to die" isn't claiming expertise? Well I'm no expert at word spinning but that sounds like word spinning.

To be precise, when I use "expert" in quotes I'm referring to a person who is only parroting things they've read in forums to sound like they know something. A simple question or two on what they're writing and they have no clue and start dreaming up responses with the ultimate response of "well I do it in my pond and it works". Many forums are full of these "experts". Is the purpose of forums just for people to feel like experts or convey info? Different forums are either one and most I think are the former.

Specially I'm talking about people who say any concrete in a pond will drive up pH and kill all the fish. A couple of potted plants in a pond will suck up all nutrients and starve algae. Anything about barley straw. Koi in 100 gal container are DOOMED! Stuff that was disproved many years ago and would take 10 minutes of research to confirm.

I don't mean people who fall for one of these myths and is open to at least considering it may not be correct and is willing to do a little research. I'm talking about people who post opinion and myth as fact hundreds of times, who are confronted in different forums many times but keep hammering the myth for as long as they can sucker anyone in. I don't think they help the hobby one bit.

 

[Waterbug]

To simply throw out a thread like this, then to say "see it works" with quite poor notations and explanations, this is quite a dangerous thing to do and is the reason why there is so much bad internet advice in this hobby.

I would agree if the OP had actually done this, but they didn't. When the OP said:

I'd like to keep you updated on the fish, water quality, and when I winter this "pond"

I saw no claim of "see it works". Sounds more like OP doesn't know and wants to actually test to see if it works. And an offer to keep providing data. A perfect opportunity for readers to learn something...wasted.

To say "quite poor notations and explanations" is really the poorest of manners. Completely unfair and just plain mean. The OP's short post was more detailed than 99.9% of posts in this forum, including "help me my fish are dying" threads. And the OP offered to provide on going data but I can see why that never happened. What would be the point of posting such data in this forum? More ammo for the haters?

It is very important to be thorough when it comes to these type of challenging threads and being capable of explaining the positioning beyond a couple of sentences, that involves proper enough notating so that others can replicate the experiment with the same success or results.

It's only a challenging thread in this forum. Lots of other forums where container ponds are common and tons and tons of info on keeping Koi in small tanks. Google it. You'll be reading for weeks.

 

[Dave 54]

Your last statement about tons and tons of people keeping koi in small tanks was an interesting one , I did google it and found that you are correct in what you say, however I can claim to be a bit of an expert in the field of koi keeping indoors in a large 6 x 2 x2.5 Aquarium.
The sizes of some of these Aquariums makes me shudder, they are simply too small for koi
I did it quite successfully for 22 years , however I would be the first person to put my hand up and say that I was wrong to do this .......why?
It's because of what happened to my koi when we moved them into our pond, in that they came to into their own.
They became different fish not only in size but in colouration, they were more relaxed, must probably less stressed, not swimming endlessly from one end of the tank and back again, they grew not only in size but in girth, something I had pondered over for many years,.from.looking at other peoples koi in the show arena and wondering why our koi didnt really have a girth to match them, this was all down to the load on the tanks two filters a Fluvel FX5 and an eheim Pofessional III 2080 they now have.that girth because our feeding of them is different yes the fluvel and Eheim where good at what they did ut they could only do so much compared to the filtration we now have.
To say this was an eye opener for me is an understatement being in the knowledge was I had done them a grave miss-service by keeping them cooped up like that..
Yes I can still look fondly back to those days as I did my level best for them,I learned alot about health issues etc, but it quite simply wasnt enougth, I sadly failed them,a bit like keeping a wild animal cooped up in a zoo instead of a Safari Park where they had the freedom to roam.
However the really useful bit I took away with me from those years was what we had learned from them and a simply unstinting maintenance routine, which I may add carries on to this very day. plus the fact I had a by far greater respect for them which I have come to see in the 5 years that weve been outdoors hopefully we will together go on for another 20 yers or so.
It has also given me the ability to listen to people and their concerns about their own fish and their welfare.

rgrds

Dave

 

[Sarin]

Going to bed I didn't imagine waking up to so many posts. Pretty interesting how this thread developed.

Waterbug, I thank you once again for getting my point across. This was, for lack of a better word, an experiment. I have always wanted a koi pond, and my research always told me it wasn't possible with my circumstances. However, I wanted to see for my own eyes and so decided to try it. I wanted the challenge and experience for keeping this ecosystem running. That perhaps I could share my experience with others.

I forgot to mention, I did add bacteria to the pond.

Like I said, I expected the responses I've gotten. It happens on every forum. I am not defending myself, really. I am just trying to have a decent conversation, not debate, about this pond.

I am close friends with the owners of a local pet store. I help out once in a while. They bring in thousands of koi every summer. They keep over 300 in a 300 gallon pond for weeks at a time and I assure you in the morning they are scooping no dead koi out of those ponds. They keep 5"-24" Koi and butterfly Koi.

By the way, to whoever said I posted another thread asking about the pond.. You were right. However, I only asked if 2x2's would hold the support of the water. I never asked about any thing else until others brought things up.

Canada isn't a block of ice, people. Where I live we get very mild winters. The past few years we've barely gotten any snow. Yes, it is enough to freeze the top layer of the pond at the very least. I am in contact with a very knowledgable (20 yrs) pond keeper and he assured me an air pump will be sufficient. So that is what I am going to do. If you allow me, I will report how everything goes.

Also, you guys assume the hyacinths died due to poor water conditions. None of you asked why. We had a week of sudden cool weather, that's all.

I feed the fish abuout 3 grams of food once, sometimes twice a day. The food is 28.8% Min protein. They eat the plants throughout the day.

Next time I test the water I will share the readings.


I would much rather this be an educational thread then what it has become. It is a lot more civil when people ask questions rather than assuming and flaming.

By the way, she.

 

[Sarin]

Here are some recent photos from a couple days ago. They were taken with my phone, sorry for the low quality.

 

[sissy]

water looks good and fish look OK to me .But then I'm no expert :cheerful: Leave me out of that part .Be proud and love what you did and what you have .Ignore the rest .I do the happy dance every day .I don't put people down or attack others for what they know I may disagree and my choice AS IT IS YOURS . Life is to short .BE HAPPY SMILE :cheerful:

 

[crsublette]

Your last statement about tons and tons of people keeping koi in small tanks was an interesting one , I did google it and found that you are correct in what you say, however I can claim to be a bit of an expert in the field of koi keeping indoors in a large 6 x 2 x2.5 Aquarium.
The sizes of some of these Aquariums makes me shudder, they are simply too small for koi
I did it quite successfully for 22 years , however I would be the first person to put my hand up and say that I was wrong to do this .......why?
It's because of what happened to my koi when we moved them into our pond, in that they came to into their own.
They became different fish not only in size but in colouration, they were more relaxed, must probably less stressed, not swimming endlessly from one end of the tank and back again, they grew not only in size but in girth, something I had pondered over for many years,.from.looking at other peoples koi in the show arena and wondering why our koi didnt really have a girth to match them, this was all down to the load on the tanks two filters a Fluvel FX5 and an eheim Pofessional III 2080 they now have.that girth because our feeding of them is different yes the fluvel and Eheim where good at what they did ut they could only do so much compared to the filtration we now have.
To say this was an eye opener for me is an understatement being in the knowledge was I had done them a grave miss-service by keeping them cooped up like that..
Yes I can still look fondly back to those days as I did my level best for them,I learned alot about health issues etc, but it quite simply wasnt enougth, I sadly failed them,a bit like keeping a wild animal cooped up in a zoo instead of a Safari Park where they had the freedom to roam.
However the really useful bit I took away with me from those years was what we had learned from them and a simply unstinting maintenance routine, which I may add carries on to this very day. plus the fact I had a by far greater respect for them which I have come to see in the 5 years that weve been outdoors hopefully we will together go on for another 20 yers or so.
It has also given me the ability to listen to people and their concerns about their own fish and their welfare.

rgrds

Dave

Exactly the point of why those who are concerned here. Dave, ya just did not "make this up out of thin air" did ya?

If folk saw someone not paying attention about to get hit by a car, do ya just say "look how healthy and happy he is" while ignoring the car that is about to smear him across the road ?? The difference here is that "car" is not so easy to spot.

 

[crsublette]

I would agree if the OP had actually done this, but they didn't. When the OP said:

The implication and assumption that everything is going to be fine with their current methods and the defensiveness absolutely does indicate to me a statement of "see it works", that is at this moment.

It's only a challenging thread in this forum. Lots of other forums where container ponds are common and tons and tons of info on keeping Koi in small tanks. Google it. You'll be reading for weeks.

This is aboslutely not your basic setup, that is where concern to the fish's health is primary. Yes, there are tons and tons of info on properly keeping koi in small tanks with many caveats that make them work.

I saw no claim of "see it works". Sounds more like OP doesn't know and wants to actually test to see if it works. And an offer to keep providing data. A perfect opportunity for readers to learn something...wasted.

This is what I am trying to do, but this attempt to be defensive in a conversation, which the reply to concerns absolutely have been defensive, to retalliate against folk who have seen these problems occur and are expressing their concerns quite strongly, and this retalliation is what is causing this discussion to be quite hallow.

Now, due to how particular statements and observations have been made, I am jumping to the conclusion that the author quite likely have not seen their fair share of fish, that is involving discussions pointing out actual deformirities, ailments, and incorrect behavior of healthy fish, to know the result of when a fish is improperly fed and managed as well as spotting other less obvious ailments. So, due to this, the statements of "appears healthy and happy" is quite meaningless to me.


Lets look at the actual data that has been shared thus far from, which is just barely scratching the surface here, quite poor notations lacking explanation. No mention of test results, other than saying everything is ok, nor pictures verifying. Now, the most recent post, post#51, has been quite informative.

1) Some place in Canada (post#1) , mild winters and told by others that basic aeration will prevent ice buildup with small snow accumulation (post#51)
2) Outside Dimensions are 55" Long, 30" Wide and 22" Deep. It is approx. 115 US gallons. (post#1)
3) Lost 2 fish in the first 2 weeks of transition (post#7)
4) did a 20% water change when the 2 koi died. I have not done a water change since. (post#7)
5) currently have one ~15" goldsifh, three 6-7" koi, and two 5" butterfly (post#7)
6) koi will be moved into a larger pond when they outgrow this one. (post#9)
7) feed the fish abuout 3 grams of food once, sometimes twice a day (that is .1~.2 ounces of food). The food is 28.8% Min protein. They eat the plants throughout the day (post#51)
8) 3 large and 5 small hyacinth plants in there as well as 3 lillypad plants. (post#1) and hyacinths have all died off due to cool weather (post#51) and the water lillies have taken over (post#7)
9) only using a 1000 gallon rated filter with bio balls (post#1) with 10 2" bio balls in the filter (post#24) and cleaned the filter twice thus far (post#7)
10) added bacteria to the pond (post#51)
11) wait and see how the water tests before deciding how many water changes (post#1)

Now tell me how is this information any different than the typical begginer pond setup ?? ... which do result in problems eventually and the problems are shared almost daily here on this and other forums. What have you found that is meaningful and indicates the fish will be quite healthy for decades on end ??


I hope further testaments are shared in the future, both good and bad, irregardless of the concerns already shared here, so to give proper information that we need to give readers an indication if this is the proper way to approach a pond. Granted, this is an experiment, but experiments are not disqualified from being viewed as if it could be the status quo.

 

[Dave 54]

Yes. Kind of like all the posts that proclaim to know the future and tell the poster, who didn't ask for any advice, how their pond was crap. This forum is strictly for entertainment purposes. Some people enjoy pretending to know the future or think they're experts placed on the earth to tell everyone else their pond is crap because it's different. I enjoy defending people who dare to post something different because I enjoy reading something different rather than the exact same posts over and over. But yeah, there's certainly no point to any of this. Like Freecell.

I think the "go post somewhere else" suggestion was made pretty darn clear by all the negative posts long before I posted. I assume the OP had already decided to never post in another pond forum again and probably never read my post. But I found it entertaining to write.

I caught this reading back through waterbug "so this forum is for enterainment eh" ,may I ask who's your's???... because if so waterbug you have the wrong idea........
Many people here have very genuine issues with their koi or goldfish health some of us including yourself profess enough knowledge to help them and in doing so help teach them about the hobby .
To some the death of just one fish is traumatic because they are their pets and they have names plus have been in their family for years
I remember as a child when my Goldie died age ten, I was motified.
So if you can help that person aviod this happening again you pathe the way for them to progress into the hobby
You do this either by explaining things or pointing to some good litrature that will in future help them decide on a treatment.and they in turn will help others or dont you get it ???
So I dont think this site is for entertainment , I'm sorry but I find that statement rather arrogant of you to say the very least.
Going back through this spread people have been indeed quite polite to Serin in telling her about the problems that arrise when keeping koi quite rightfully so.
As nobody wants to see the fish fall suddenly ill do to the stress of their suroundings
They also enquired as to if she enquired into the buidling regulations and asked for permission to build the pond again quite rightfully so .
There must be nothing worse than putting in all that hard work only to be told sorry the half ton of your pond is stressing the building you have to remove it.
Then to add insult to injury be told she has to foot the bill for repairs to the building , if anything we are all guilty of being very concerned and thats all..
I am now totally confused as to the total amount of koi in the pond reading back through it has gone up from 5 to 7 with a 15" goldfish which must be some sort of record.
Even if Serin is confused as to just what she has in the pond , it is still far to many.,yet to turn it into some sort of experiment is a totally wrong thing to suggest.
I hope some good eventually comes out of this thread I really do .
PS I dont profess to be an expert, niether does anyone else on this forum yet I think you think you are, nor does anyone profess to see the future because its rather obvious to anyone who keeps koi. that those koi are going to rapidly outgrow their current pond


rgrds


Dave

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, I generally give folk a wide breadth when guesstimating the length of their fish. A 15" goldfish is quite rare, depending on what it has cross bred with, but I am assuming it is a typical common goldfish.


Now, why has this very young pond worked thus far...

1) Minimal filtration.

2) Fish only fed the very bare minimal 3~6 grams per day (that is .1~.2 ounces).

3) Not experienced a winter nor even a full year yet.

4) We know absolutely nothing about the source water. My guess is that the owner is fortunate to have water with sufficient carbonate, but time will tell and is dependent on water changes.


I look forward to the results as well, but I have not seen anything "earth shattering", amazing, that is something new to learn from yet. To me, the system is quite explainable thus far.

I am always hoping for the best :claphands: but not going to allow my hope to blind me.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

You mean no one wrote "I'm an expert"? Posting "that pond is too small for koi, they're all going to die" isn't claiming expertise? Well I'm no expert at word spinning but that sounds like word spinning.

But nobody actually said that either!

Here are a summary of statements previous to your "experts" accusation.
"Yikes that is a lot of koi for a small pond! "
"Yes that is too many fish for that pond they will out grow that pond rather quickly plus it could be a health issue for them."
"There's nothing wrong with a 100 gallon pond as long as you don't have more than 4 goldfish in there."
"But I also have to agree that you have too many fish-inches for that size pond. Remember, it's not so much how MANY fish you have, it's their size that matters."
"It may be just me, but I wouldn't put fish into a new pond with the expectation of loss knowing water hasn't cycled and it is a real issue."
"Hi: You don't have a pond, but you have an outdoor aquarium! ,,,,, As everyone has said, your pond is of concern."
The closest thing to your statement was Dieselplower's "Noone is trying to pick on the OP... This pond will be a grain (train) wreck. Sorry.".
Most of these comments just seem more like concerned warning then infallible predictions. Some even go into some detail and offer links as to why they they believe the OP has too many fish in that little pond.

However, I personally still feel the OP is free to try whatever they want. They just have to be prepared, and I think she is, to take a little flak here in the forums, and maybe it would be a good idea not to get too emotionally attached to her fish. If any of us who has been ponding for more than a couple years, and is not guilty of having a fish die on us, please step forward and receive your recognition award.
I know my first attempt to keep fish in an aquarium resulted in the death of around 50 fish in 24 hours. Of course I was about 7 years old and knew nothing about filtration, chlorine, ammonia and oxygen levels. Still, it was the death of those fish that sparked my interest into what went wrong, and how it was that other people are able to keep fish alive and healthy in aquariums for long periods of time.
Ponding is such a diverse hobby. It encompasses everything from fountains and water features, to heavily planted water gardens, to obsessed koi breeders, to wild outdoor ponds (swamps?), and everything in between. To many people it's all about the fish, but to others the fish are just pond decorations to accent the plants and water movement. Without a common defined goal as to what a perfect pond is, it's no wonder we all have different ideas as to how to proceed. Different forums themes certainly can define what is more acceptable. This forum, as the name implies, aught to lean more towards water (pond) gardening, and you would assume would focus more on plants, whereas a forum like kiophen.com you'd assume would focus more on fish (koi to be specific). But the lines still get blurred despite the title of the forums.
I enjoy koi forums like koiphen for their advanced filtration knowledge and detailed pond building threads, but have only a passing interest in koi. I guess the reason I frequent this forum is because it has a little more diversity. Somehow I doubt my frog and turtle feeding videos would fit very well into koiphen, although they do have a neglected "turtle" sub-forum.

Sarin, I figured you were a "she", even though everybody was referring to you as a "he". Sarin is the name of the little tadpole I had swimming in my pond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hoPRDfJnEi4

 

[Dave 54]

No I didnt just make it up out of thin air Charles I speak from experiance my friend .....






rgrds

Dave

 

[crsublette]

Sarin, I figured you were a "she", even though everybody was referring to you as a "he". Sarin is the name of the little tadpole I had swimming in my pond.

Awesome video. Randy, you always bring the good stuff man. :blueflower: