Winter Pond Temps

[callingcolleen1]

Most likely smog is high, so they can do fire bans because of that.

 

[sissy]

I put up your ponds in canada about your water experiment

 

[addy1]

Guess the ice is making a nice blanket on the pond.

Surface temp 33
bottom temp 36.7

Aerator running

 

[j.w]

Here's why we have burn bans here sissy. We have a certified wood stove so we can ignore the stage one burn ban but if stage two than we have to stop burning.
A burn ban is a mandatory, yet temporary, order that restricts the use of wood stoves and fireplaces, as well as outdoor burning. The Puget Sound Clean Air Agency issues an air quality burn ban when the weather trends toward stagnant conditions, such as air inversions, which trap fine particle pollution emitted from our chimneys, cars, trucks, and other activities. Our air quality can deteriorate quickly when the weather doesn't give us the breeze we need to clean away our daily air pollution, which is why taking action to curb burning can help keep our air healthy.

Don’t get burned!

Violating an air quality burn ban can result in civil penalties starting at $1,000 per day.
What is banned
during a burn ban?

The agency issues the following bans:

Stage 1. During a Stage 1 burn ban:

• No burning is allowed in fireplaces and uncertified wood stoves, unless it is your only adequate source of heat. This includes the use of manufactured logs such as Duraflame or Javalogs.
• You can use pellet stoves, EPA-certified wood stoves and natural gas or propane fireplaces.
• No visible smoke is allowed from any solid fuel burning devices, beyond a 20 minute start-up period.

Stage 2. During a Stage 2 burn ban:

• No burning is allowed in any fireplace, pellet stove or wood stove (certified or not), unless it is your only adequate source of heat.
• You can use natural gas or propane fireplaces.
• No visible smoke is allowed from any solid fuel burning device at any time.

All outdoor burning is prohibited during a burn ban, even in areas where otherwise permitted by law.

 

[addy1]

We used to have burn bans all of the time in arizona. Winter inversion issues.

 

[MitchM]

Between the air temperatures of -20C/-4F and +10C/50F, my pond bottom temps are staying at +38.8F, +/- 0.1F
There's a good 8" of ice cover on the whole pond, except for the opening from the heater.
I probably won't post again unless there is a significant change.

 

[MitchM]

I hung a small powerhead in the heater opening last night (Hagen 804), and the bottom water temperature dropped from +38.8F to +35.4F.
I was surprised that small powerhead like that could make such a difference in a 6000+ gallon 5' deep pond.

 

[Mmathis]

I'm curious maybe someone actually knows why this is happening this winter.
So i hope this info helps if anyone has similar problem. the attached are the pictures of the sick fish: the first is the is 3 y.o. before i released it back to the pond 2 weeks ago, and the second is the sick fish that swimming in my garage now.

Milocat [love the pic!], I sent a note to the moderators to see if they can re-post your note to another area within the forum -- so more people can see it and respond to help you out!

edit (Ian): Post split and moved to http://www.gardenpon...ely-alive-fish/

 

[Mucky_Waters]

[color=#282828;]Date: 30-Dec-2012[/color]
[color=#282828;]Time: 9:41 pm[/color]
[color=#282828;]Outside air temp: 20.3 F (-6.5 C)[/color]
[color=#282828;]Surface pond temp: 34.7 F (1.5 C) 12" depth[/color]
[color=#282828;]Bottom pond temp: 39.38 F (4.1 C) 5ft depth[/color]

Been keeping a hole open in my pond with my hand for the last couple weeks, but with colder temps in the forecast I don't think that will be possible after tonight.

I will be approaching the point where my pond will have been totally iced over for 2 months solid. With the amount of snow on top of the ice I think it will be a while still before the pond is ice free. I have had no heaters, no bubbler, no circulating water of any sort. The pond bottom has maintained a constant temperature of about 3.5 C 38.3 F, but has been in almost complete darkness because of the nearly 3 feet of snow on top. There is a relatively low fish load, in a 2000+ gal pond. The pond was cleaned of all the vegetation prior to winter freeze up, and the bottom drain kept the deeper part of the pond clean, although there was some light mulm accumulated around the shelves. Since it froze over back around Dec 31 2012 I have no idea how the fish are doing down there, all I know is the bottom temperature of the pond, and the temp near the surface which has maintained a steady 1.5 C.
So, the question is.,,,,
What sort of odds would you give on my fish (turtles and frogs) surviving the winter?
Or to make it easier, how about choosing a multiple choice answer.
(a) They are all dead.
(b) Some of them have died.
(c) They all survived.
(d) All of the above.
Oh, one thing I did notice prior to the pond freezing was that one of the fantail goldfish seemed to display some buoyancy problems, but that seemed to have rectified itself before the pond iced up and snow covered it.

 

[j.w]

Well if I say d then I'm nuts which could be true anyways but I think I will choose c due to your getting it reasonably free of rotting muck before the freeze and small fish load. Now how long do we have to wait before it thaws I wonder? Will be interesting to find out what happens.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Mucky, I'm afraid for your fish! How thick is the ice is covering your pond? If the ice is two feet thick and your pond is five feet deep, some smaller fish may still be alive. If the ice is three feet deep that would leave them with only two feet of water, and little to no air.

If you only have less than one foot of ice, chances are good that some smaller fish may have survived. If you have thick stalks of cat-tails in your pond that you did not cut down, chances are better that they survived. Thick stalks of cat-tails are porous and allow oxygen to flow in and gases to flow out, that is how a natural pond would winter. With a total ice coverage for more than two months, with no fresh flow of oxygen, the odds are not in your favor.

Frogs have a better chance for survival than the fish. Bottom and top temperatures are insignificant, if all the oxygen depleted and gases all you have left.

If the larger fish already struggling, then chances greater that oxygen too low.

Good luck, you may need it!

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Well if I say d then I'm nuts which could be true anyways but I think I will choose c due to your getting it reasonably free of rotting muck before the freeze and small fish load. Now how long do we have to wait before it thaws I wonder? Will be interesting to find out what happens.

JW I'm hoping by mid March I'll start to see some open water, I should have some idea by then.

Mucky, I'm afraid for your fish!
Good luck, you may need it!

Colleen thanks for your concern. The actual ice on my 5 ft deep pond is about 7-8" thick, but there is a lot of snow on top of that.
I am pretty confident most of the fish, turtles and frogs will make it. However, I could be wrong. With my last pond I use to run a pump and filter all winter long, and attempted to keep a hole in the ice all winter. Frankly I don't think it was really necessary, not with the low fish loads that I kept (and keep), and the steps I take in the fall to clean the vegetation out of the pond before winter. I have known many people who do nothing for their ponds in the winter, no heater, no pumps, no air holes, and their ponds are way smaller than mine, and their ponds are way dirtier than mine, and they seldom lose any fish through the winter. It's usually in the summer time that they lose their fish to predators and pumps getting plugged up, etc... Then there are those who bring their fish inside for the winter, and yet sometimes they lose fish too. It's not that I don't give a hoot about the fish, I just want to make sure that what I do actually is something that is really necessary.
Anyway, if they don't make. or even if a number of them don't make it, I'll take extra precautions next year. I do have a system in mind that would allow me to circulate water in the pond through my indoor open settling tank and back to the pond. That would be better than trying to keep a hole in the ice, and allow me to filter the water and do water test throughout the winter. BUT, it would mean running a 180 watt pump (electricity costs), and having to worry about keeping it all running and the possibility of a developing a leak in the middle of the winter (which could be disastrous).
What I need to know before I do that is,,,, Is it necessary?
My feeling is, if I can make it through a winter with no interference on my part, except for those pre-winter preparation things I already do, and have a good mortality rate, then there is really no need to do any of that extra stuff.

I'll tell you what one of my biggest concerns are, and it has nothing to do with oxygen levels or gas, or pond temps. It's all the snow I have sitting on the top of the pond. I have 3 feet of compact snow. I'm not sure how much water that translates to, but I do know that the rain and snow around here is slightly acidic. My concern is that when that snow starts to melt into the pond, will the ph levels in my pond drop down to levels that would be harmful to the fish, especially when I know it will happen at a time when the fish's immunity will be very low. That could be a real problem, but I won't know until it happens. So, what I'm going to do is the same thing I'm doing now, I'll let things happen naturally without my interference. I'll watch and wait and monitor and see. If something does go wrong and I can determine the precise cause, then I'll take decisive action and steps to prevent it from happening again, but not until I can determine positively that there really is a problem.

 

[addy1]

My first winter, with this pond, had 4 fish and frogs. The pond did freeze over 8-10 inches deep, covered with snow (winter of 2009) for almost the entire winter. Everything survived. That was a very low fish load though.

Hubby had a foreclosure he bought years ago, he found a piece of plywood in the front yard (house empty for a year plus) Picked up that plywood, found a small preform pond with goldfish in it. They had no light, no food, froze in the winter, heat in the summer. They can be darn tough.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Well 7 to 8 inches of ice not to bad, so you must be in southern BC then. Your fish load is low, not too thick of ice, you may be OK. I get lots of snow some years, but I do top off pond all winter as mine is heated when very cold. You may have nothing to worry about, just don't like the fish in the dark either for too long, and with those walls you have, sun may not shine directly on your pond till May, so melting that ice may take longer too. Keep your eye out for white mold or fungas on the plants, pond walls, or fish, as long time with little or no sun is not good either.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Addy, if the conditions are right, fish can live well when undistubed or not cared for. In the winter many people around here lost lots fish thinking that their pond was big enough and fish load low. Things happen and some winters are colder than normal, and people lose fish that may have made it past years. My friend of many years who had very very large koi, gave them away a few years back to this golf course in town with a very large natural pond. They had wintered their fish in that pond for years, then one year they just all up and died! Maybe the extra fish load of additional new fish, and a extra hard winter, but they lost them all that year. All I can tell you is I have seen many dead fish in other peoples ponds come spring in past years. Some had a heater but no water movement, some just had a bubbler for air, and some did nothing thinking their pond was big enough. I don't know of anyone around here who lost fish with a pond heater and good water movement like me. So I can only conclude that other methods of wintering ponds here, in this climate, can be risky.