When To Surrender To Leaks In Waterfall!?

[msr0459]

yes or rocks below if you want less water but id keep your depth
why not caulk it a sand it

"Caulking and sanding?", you may have misunderstood... that area isn't the leak problem on the spillway. It's leaking because that side of spillrock is lower and further away from the spillway opening. Even after foaming it was still finding a path. So I was considering either:

1. Using Rapid Set Cement All and filling in that whole area beside the spillway rock and the one beside it...so no path for water. BUT, even though that product allegedly adheres to stone, there could still be a hairline seam or whatever, and water would win, again.

2. Lifting the corner (if possible) of spill rock, placing liner under, spanning back to under the lip of the spillway. I would also then curve the liner up against the rock beside the spillway. This way I'm not trying to force, or stop the water from exiting there.. I'd be letting it leak off as before, but then the bib would take it off the front area, as opposed to the side and under that side rock.

The blue dotted line would be the bib.. OR basically the same area the Cement All would be placed. Thoughts?

 

[msr0459]

Here's what I ultimately decided to do to once and for all (hopefully) stop my spillway leak. I'm sure nothing new for you veterans, but I'd seen this on a video from "the pond advisor). As you can see it's just an extra piece of liner now going completely under and off the sides of the spill rock. I now just have to, once again, button it back up with rocks and foam, and maybe caulk.

 

[GBBUDD]

basically you have installed a bib liner now you need to secure it

 

[msr0459]

basically you have installed a bib liner now you need to secure it

Yessir!

 

[msr0459]

basically you have installed a bib liner now you need to secure it

Well, apparently the bib liner wasn't the answer! As you can see, water is STILL defying logic! I 100% can't imagine where or how it's getting under that rock beside the spillway. The bulkhead connection is dry, water exits the spillway and goes over the bib liner. I mean !!??

I foamed under the lip of the bib liner, but maybe water's still wicking under the edge of the liner, migrating freaking sideways, then under that rock and down??

 

[msr0459]

Also just realized that after I first installed the spillway bib liner, there was absolutely no leaks.. not until I foamed under the liner edge, at the end, did it start leaking again,.. coincidence

 

[Pablo]

Are you sure there is no leak from the black spillway box? Seems like if water was running over the spillway rock and underneath and somehow sideways like you said then the area that is a gap between the large boulder and the other small rocks would be wet but it is dry. Maybe it is just the angle of the picture but it seems like the water is coming from further back of that large boulder which is why I ask if somehow the water is coming from the box.

 

[msr0459]

Are you sure there is no leak from the black spillway box? Seems like if water was running over the spillway rock and underneath and somehow sideways like you said then the area that is a gap between the large boulder and the other small rocks would be wet but it is dry. Maybe it is just the angle of the picture but it seems like the water is coming from further back of that large boulder which is why I ask if somehow the water is coming from the box.

The area all around and under the spillway is dry, at least as far as I can tell. Upon much more inspection this afternoon, maybe, just maybe, the water was coming off the corner of spill stone, and lipping back around the bib liner. I went back and used the roofing caulk to completely seal that gap, leaving everything the same below the bib so water still has a path if needed.

Maddening stuff!! Especially since there wasn't a leak AT ALL after I first put in the bib liner under the spillway rock. Yet now!?

 

[GBBUDD]

I really don't understand why your battling with this so much. You have to think and be one with the water it flows down hill it can back up and it can wick. it can freeze it can splash that's it

 

[msr0459]

I really don't understand why your battling with this so much. You have to think and be one with the water it flows down hill it can back up and it can wick. it can freeze it can splash that's it

Really, the main reason I'm battling this, again, is because I mucked up some large boulder placements and subsequently bunched up the liner, downhill from this spillway leak. Otherwise I'd just let it do it's thing, and I could re reroute it with the liner. As it is, it's VERY difficult to keep it from going out of the feature.

I'm thinking I'm "one" with the water,.. looking at how it could flow,.. feeling good, and inevitably, BAM, I have water coming out from under a boulder and I'm like, huh!!? Lol

If there was access, and of course if it didn't cost so dang much, I'd hire a mini excavator just to lift up and reposition two large boulders that are basically laying on each other. I could then see the water path,..but most importantly I could pull out the liner and foam a proper berm for it to travel down to the basin. Heck, I might even try a pry bar but am afraid I'd puncture the liner, but also that large boulder may well roll the heck down the steep hillside,.. no Bueno! Lol

 

[Pablo]

I've seen videos where pros grind the edge of the spillway stones to give them more of the negative edge you look for on waterfalls. The sharper the edge moving out helps to have the water flow right over and outward from the stone rather than hugging the stone and possibly going under it. When I look at the picture of the spill rock in the bib it looks like the right side is straight down rather than having an edge projecting out. That may be hard to fix with grinding away but maybe you could place a stone on top to divert away from that side. this is quite the mystery.

 

[msr0459]

I've seen videos where pros grind the edge of the spillway stones to give them more of the negative edge you look for on waterfalls. The sharper the edge moving out helps to have the water flow right over and outward from the stone rather than hugging the stone and possibly going under it. When I look at the picture of the spill rock in the bib it looks like the right side is straight down rather than having an edge projecting out. That may be hard to fix with grinding away but maybe you could place a stone on top to divert away from that side. this is quite the mystery.

Yea, I've even come close to just ripping it all apart and replacing the spill stone with a different one, but I really like the way it banks off that side rock on the way down, as you can see in the pic.

Notice the liner I re-formed to accommodate the water that's leaking outside the boulder,.. definitely didn't plan it, but also can't seem to pin point how the heck the water's getting all the way to the outside of those lower 2 large boulders. The problem is where the liner's all bunched up (circled in blue).

I'd also already stuck the stream liner to the basin liner at the bottom (circled in blue),.. which now is preventing me from folding up the liner toward the bottom properly,.. and once again the water's tries to leave the feature.

If not for those two problems, I'd be golden! Lol

 

[GBBUDD]

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