When To Surrender To Leaks In Waterfall!?

[msr0459]

Your leak is due to your trying to seal on top of underlayment . GOOOOOOOOOOOOD LUCK ... YOU NEED TO INSTALL A BIB LINER between the boulders . you have underlayment under your boulders yes a very good thing to keep your liner safe but now you have fabric that is like a horizontal straw allowing water to run between the layers .

i would get caulking lots of quality caulking and caulk all across your gravel coat every inch then drop while still wet more gravel on top.

as far as how loud it is you have water falling into the pools a deeper tone. if you place a boulder that is angled so when the water drops it lands like it is running down a ski slope. THIS METHOD CAN ALOMST BECOME SILENT. have the water fall on gravel of 1 to 2" and it can get a tinny sound as the rocks can more around hitting each other a little go smaller and more so but can be washed away

On one of the pooling area leaks, I'd already cut away the underlayment and tucked it under the boulder, then used smaller rocks and foam, so that at least the foam would be sticking to rubber and rock,..but the water is still leaking under WAY more than I'd intended. So yes, I can see where a bib liner is in order.

That said, on all the bib liner tutorial videos, they are using the black foam to seal the new piece of epdm around the perimeter, up against the rocks or whatever. Would silicone caulk not be better?, just curious.

Speaking of caulk,...regarding my spillway leak,.. when you say "caulk across the gravel",... is there a specific caulk you recommend, again, I'd think 100% silicone, right?

Great tips on changing the sound of the cascading water. Thanks!

 

[addy1]

How long did you wait before hitting it with water?

One time almost as soon as done, other times a few hours. It all depends, if filling a gap, I have water on fast as long as it is stuck to rocks as full as possible. So far has worked for me. I have been using it for years.

Fixing a issue with liner and a hole I make sure clean dry, given a day to dry.

I put two holes in our stock tank, years ago, moving with the tractor, fixed with liner and pl goop, still holding.

Best, give it some dry time.

 

[msr0459]

One time almost as soon as done, other times a few hours. It all depends, if filling a gap, I have water on fast as long as it is stuck to rocks as full as possible. So far has worked for me. I have been using it for years.

Fixing a issue with liner and a hole I make sure clean dry, given a day to dry.

I put two holes in our stock tank, years ago, moving with the tractor, fixed with liner and pl goop, still holding.

Best, give it some dry time.

That's awesome that you've had such good results using that product. I read on the product tech sheet that a "limitation" is being subjected to continuous water, which had me wondering if it would fail eventually?

Edit* I went back and read the pdf tech specs, and couldn't find that part. So perhaps I was mistaken. It says something about "10 weeks submersion". Hmm sounds like it may also work for sealing the side of my spillway rock as well.

 

[addy1]

Mine on a constant flowing fast waterfall, is still good. Redid the waterfall last winter, when I turned it on the water went under and behind the rocks. This was spring, late March. Shut it off, let it sort of dry for a day, filled all under gaps with goop, waited about a hour turned back on.

Long story shorter, it has run all summer zero issues with the goop, fast flow water. The stock tank goop under water fixing the holes for about 8 years now, maybe longer.

 

[msr0459]

Mine on a constant flowing fast waterfall, is still good. Redid the waterfall last winter, when I turned it on the water went under and behind the rocks. This was spring, late March. Shut it off, let it sort of dry for a day, filled all under gaps with goop, waited about a hour turned back on.

Long story shorter, it has run all summer zero issues with the goop, fast flow water. The stock tank goop under water fixing the holes for about 8 years now, maybe longer.

What the heck?,... no one carries that particular Loctite product here,..where do you get yours?

Edit* I found it available at Lowe's online, so can have it shipped here

 

[addy1]

WEAR gloves or have black fingers, no matter how careful you are. Mineral spirits works or acetone to get it off.

 

[msr0459]

WEAR gloves or have black fingers, no matter how careful you are. Mineral spirits works or acetone to get it off.

For sure. Also, was wondering if that stuff will adhere to waterfall foam,..meaning,.. all along the bottom edges of the pooling area that leaks, already has foam there, and no way will I be able to "undo" all of that.

 

[msr0459]

Your leak is due to your trying to seal on top of underlayment . GOOOOOOOOOOOOD LUCK ... YOU NEED TO INSTALL A BIB LINER between the boulders . you have underlayment under your boulders yes a very good thing to keep your liner safe but now you have fabric that is like a horizontal straw allowing water to run between the layers .

i would get caulking lots of quality caulking and caulk all across your gravel coat every inch then drop while still wet more gravel on top.

as far as how loud it is you have water falling into the pools a deeper tone. if you place a boulder that is angled so when the water drops it lands like it is running down a ski slope. THIS METHOD CAN ALOMST BECOME SILENT. have the water fall on gravel of 1 to 2" and it can get a tinny sound as the rocks can more around hitting each other a little go smaller and more so but can be washed away

@GBBUDD , here's the pooling area that's leaking so badly. It's hard to see there, but it gets about 8" deep before forcing the water over the front rocks. All around the bottom edges it's sealed with additional smaller rocks and foam. The underlayment was cut away, so it sticking to liner and rock.

Should I create a bib liner inside here?, and have it curving up around the edges, creating a kind of "tub", as it were, if that's even possible. Don't think so without causing folds in the liner.

I ask because that's a bit of a different type bib liner than I've seen on tutorials. OR, should I just go back with some caulk and reinforce all the foamed edges.

 

[Pablo]

You probably already saw this video, but in case you have not, it might help, they kind of talk about the possibility of a leak issue beginning around the 5 minute mark.

 

[msr0459]

You probably already saw this video, but in case you have not, it might help, they kind of talk about the possibility of a leak issue beginning around the 5 minute mark.

Yep, I referred to this very video I believe conversing with @GBBUDD recently about this. I've done just that, as a precaution. My major problem is that even IF I create a path for any leaks to go, I've got liner that's bunched up and under two large boulders, down the line a bit. This was an oversight on my part, but by the time I saw it, like, weeks later, I no longer had access to that area, even if I could afford an excavator again to move them. I can "sort of" create a path by careful liner folding at that spot, but it's still pretty sketchy, and I'd be afraid that any shifting around could result in water "out" of the feature.

So at this point I really, really just need to make sure no water exits the spillway/spill stone off to the left side and under, like it is, well, was, as I've once again torn all that side apart in preparation for another "fix".

 

[msr0459]

Here's a pic of the spillway spot that was losing water and creating an issue down the line. I previously had it all buttoned up with foam and rocks, but water was still following the low spot and flowing out and down.

I've mostly decided to fill in the low area beside the spillway rock with a fast setting concrete product, specifically, Rapid Set Cement All. I realize the edge that was leaking will not be totally leak proof, so I will then go over the top of that with caulk, as suggested by @GBBUDD , and a layer of gravel so it'll look natural.

Was also considering putting a bib liner over top of that corner, THEN the roofing caulk and gravel.
Is there a major flaw in my thinking?

 

[GBBUDD]

@GBBUDD , here's the pooling area that's leaking so badly. It's hard to see there, but it gets about 8" deep before forcing the water over the front rocks. All around the bottom edges it's sealed with additional smaller rocks and foam. The underlayment was cut away, so it sticking to liner and rock.

Should I create a bib liner inside here?, and have it curving up around the edges, creating a kind of "tub", as it were, if that's even possible. Don't think so without causing folds in the liner.

I ask because that's a bit of a different type bib liner than I've seen on tutorials. OR, should I just go back with some caulk and reinforce all the foamed edges.

IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR

red line is all one piece of liner placed on the rocks looks like you have two rocks that are smaller i's easier to go under them then just foam those. When the foam dries then cover it with a coating of caulking . this will cut drastically water loss. No you don't see the pros do this they are pros we are not and we pay the bill in electrical use for every once of water we try to see falling over the waterfall. when you put back the rock before you do i recommend placing sand on the caulking or stone dust remnants or even moss on the higher areas, to make the caulking disappear . place your stone back on the new bib and your off.

 

[msr0459]

View attachment 161083IT LOOKS LIKE YOURView attachment 161083

red line is all one piece of liner placed on the rocks looks like you have two rocks that are smaller i's easier to go under them then just foam those. When the foam dries then cover it with a coating of caulking . this will cut drastically water loss. No you don't see the pros do this they are pros we are not and we pay the bill in electrical use for every once of water we try to see falling over the waterfall. when you put back the rock before you do i recommend placing sand on the caulking or stone dust remnants or even moss on the higher areas, to make the caulking disappear . place your stone back on the new bib and your off.

That's kinda what I was thinking, maybe...but not sure on your intent with the red line exactly.

Does the new bib curve upward against the outer rocks? If so, how far up, because remember the water fills to about 8" in there. Otherwise, I'd just laying liner on liner, right?

Also, what's your take on the post above with the spillway pics. Have you ever or do you recommend using a cement product to bridge a low side of a rock like my spillway rock? If not, I'm considering breaking apart the foam under the rock lip, seeing if I can lift that edge, and place liner under, going all the way back to the spillway. Would also have it higher against the side rock. Basically just letting the water go where it wants, then directing in front, instead of under like it's doing now. Would be a massive undertaking cause that's a very heavy spill rock, but maybe a better option.

 

[GBBUDD]

Does the new bib curve upward against the outer rocks? If so, how far up

yes, and enough to do the job

 

[GBBUDD]

Otherwise, I'd just laying liner on liner, right?

yes or rocks below if you want less water but id keep your depth

I'm considering breaking apart the foam under the rock lip, seeing if I can lift that edge

why not caulk it a sand it