What's going on with my fish? Parasites? Fungal/Bacterial?

[tanyaclick]

You have a second temp pond why are you not using that? if i remember you wanted a bead filter buy that and hook it up to one or both of the temp ponds. Your a good Stewart observing the fish and conditions. are you converting the pool? whats the end game?

we have been discussing setting it up and moving some of the fish. it just seems they underwent so much stress recently that that is the likely cause of this situation. meaning I am apprehensive to move them and cause more stress. its the little ones that seem to be taking a hit so I'd probably move all of them out. And now that I cleaned the filters, the ammonia and nitrites are showing back up on the tests so I guess we'll have to rebuild that again ugh.

The end-game is to build the pond. I have just been researching and learning so much, it seems my desires for the pond keep changing the more I learn. Now I am looking into a concrete pond so its as long term as possible and to alleviate leak risks. But IDK. I want the more natural look. The concrete likely improves the value of the home as well. its just so permanent I'm not sure. My main desire for the pond overall is fish health, everything else is secondary. The reason I have been looking at concrete is I want several 1 ton boulders to form the waterfall, and I wasn't sure how to achieve that without it caving in the side of the pond. I am thinking of building a thick concrete collar around the pond (to place rocks on top of) and a thick pad where the boulders would go. I have recently been told that leaks are most likely in the waterfall so now I am feeling nervous about doing a liner waterfall. long story short, I could use a nice phone convo with an expert like you. Ha!

 

[Lisak1]

I guess I missed the back story - you had a pond and had to dismantle it? Now you have these fish in a pool unit you decide what kind of pond to build?

 

[WaterGardener]

The fish would be better off if you moved some of them. The moving would be much less stressful that keeping them in toxic water conditions all the time.

How did you clean the filters? If you threw away the filter pads, you threw away the beneficial bacteria. Filter pads are easily cleaned by just rinsing them in the water from the pool. And they need frequent cleaning. If you need new ones, keep the old ones in the pool for a month or two until the new ones get their own bacteria colony established.

Also, never rinse filters in chlorinated water. That will destroy the bacteria, too.

Most of us have liner ponds and have never had leaks, even with bottom drains. Waterfalls can splash water out of them if they are not built deeply enough.

If you build your pond correctly, there is no problem with a liner or with the waterfall.

 

[GBBUDD]

The fish would be better off if you moved some of them. The moving would be much less stressful that keeping them in toxic water conditions all the time

Agreed......take half the water from the pool and place it in the other pool . Buy a large round 36 inch net to catch the fish use a koi sock to move them if they are bigger fish. Then add like 30 gallons a day of water that is of similar temperature . Your far better off with more water for the same amount of fish than to have more filters and for more fish.

One ton boulders aren't a big deal. They are easily set and manuvoured. A concrete bond beam is not a bad idea it is not needed with the right design. You can always build a shelf 2 feet below the surface stack some boulders that come shy of the surface and place the character stones on the boulders below that you just placed. IMO if your walls are vertical you better have wide rocks or where you can pull the bottom of the rock away from the wall so the Boulder can lean back. The last thing you want is a boulder to topple over because someone pulled on it trying to get out.
There is an advantage to concrete but there is also a price for it. But you can still have boulders in a concrete pond you just need someone who has a clue and is artistic.
Just like stairs in a unite pool or a swim out you can create similar to make shelves for choice rocks to sit.

If you build your pond correctly, there is no problem with a liner or with the waterfall.

Agreed
You are getting info from the internet or others who built their own who may be a salesman or a pilot male man or a florest. HECK MAYBE EVEN A LAWYER @Pablo point being anyone can build a pond their first time and be very successful . HOWEVER odds are there will be issues. And yes the waterfall is a common area for such. Does it mean its hard or impossible to do no, not at all .

 

[tanyaclick]

I guess I missed the back story - you had a pond and had to dismantle it? Now you have these fish in a pool unit you decide what kind of pond to build?

back story is I had a small pond. Added fish, loved them, learned some hard lessons, got bit by the Koi Kitchie Bug. Decided to expand our current pond. Picked up some more Koi before we had the chance to do the remodel. It was winter. We've expanded our plans more and more over these last months. Now spring is here. A friend was moving and I got 7 more smaller koi. Added them all together. now we have a giant family of 25 Koi and 3 goldfish and need to break ground on our pond but I am having a hard time settling on what I should do. Its so expensive I really really want to get it right.

Below is a dropbox link to my design drawing and to my spreadsheet for cost and products I am looking at using, in case you are interested.

POND

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[tanyaclick]

Agreed......take half the water from the pool and place it in the other pool . Buy a large round 36 inch net to catch the fish use a koi sock to move them if they are bigger fish. Then add like 30 gallons a day of water that is of similar temperature . Your far better off with more water for the same amount of fish than to have more filters and for more fish.

One ton boulders aren't a big deal. They are easily set and manuvoured. A concrete bond beam is not a bad idea it is not needed with the right design. You can always build a shelf 2 feet below the surface stack some boulders that come shy of the surface and place the character stones on the boulders below that you just placed. IMO if your walls are vertical you better have wide rocks or where you can pull the bottom of the rock away from the wall so the Boulder can lean back. The last thing you want is a boulder to topple over because someone pulled on it trying to get out.
There is an advantage to concrete but there is also a price for it. But you can still have boulders in a concrete pond you just need someone who has a clue and is artistic.
Just like stairs in a unite pool or a swim out you can create similar to make shelves for choice rocks to sit. Agreed
You are getting info from the internet or others who built their own who may be a salesman or a pilot male man or a florest. HECK MAYBE EVEN A LAWYER @Pablo point being anyone can build a pond their first time and be very successful . HOWEVER odds are there will be issues. And yes the waterfall is a common area for such. Does it mean its hard or impossible to do no, not at all .

The gentleman I have been speaking to recently is a retired pond builder. He isn't selling me anything. We just got to chatting. His thoughts are keeping it simple, easy to maintain, and focusing on fish health. He forwarded me this Sacramento Koi video and I really liked their thoughts on it, especially with 2 young kids.

 

[BKHpondcritters]

I watched about three minutes of that video & my thoughts are as follows -

There are two general/basic camps when it comes to backyard ponds. Water gardens (in which the focus is on low maintenance, balanced ecosystem. You must have all three components: water, fish, plants. Most likely you're going to have rocks, with some people pro-gravel on the bottom, some anti-gravel on the bottom) and Dedicated Koi ponds (which scorns the use of gravel, rocks, plants, anything other than gin-clear water & koi. Maintenance is via massive filtration.)

This forum is generally focused on **water gardens that probably include fish**. If you're thinking along the lines of what is shown in that video, at least as far as I can tell by looking at his "pond" (that's not a pond, IMO, it's a swimming pool for koi) and listening to his three "requirements" for a pond, then you might be better off over at Koiphen, where they are ALL about the Koi, not all about a balanced ecosystem with fish.

Please don't think I'm being critical of your focus. What you want to achieve in your garden/pond/landscaping is a totally personal choice, and yours alone to make. I just don't think this forum might be the best place for you to get info that leads you to what you want to achieve.

I wish you & your fish the best of luck & I hope you're able to create a perfect habitat for your current fishy charges quickly & before you run into more problems.

 

[GBBUDD]

I know it well, they also have the back side built up making it harder for the Blue heron to go fishing. I would make that at least two feet above the water line. they can still grab an occasional fish but it makes them less successful. Right at 3 feet will guarantee they won't be dining at your pond . the owner shows his pond and it does have steep sides on three sides but his lot either allowed for that design or they did a nice job making it look nice.

Their bead filter is among the best, but is also the most expensive. There are others that are comparable.

Sacramento is all about maximizing the health of the fish by making it as close to a clean room for lack of a better term. Contemporary ponds have their place it just isn't my favorite. i do not mind seeing algae in the pond you will not find any pond without algae. And if my fish swim into a boulder and get a boo boo in our home we say you won't do that again we don't put them in a protective bubble. There are the concrete pond like the video you posted that maximize cleanliness. While the other side is the way nature has done it for millions of years. Both have a plus and minus.

One last mention to ponds, kids will spend the entire day catching frogs or small fish in a bog pond well call it. but in the same regard if kids are going to be climbing all over the pond and sticking their hands in every milk and cranny. its important to remove all these spaces by filling them in with stone or some other means

 

[tanyaclick]

I know it well, they also have the back side built up making it harder for the Blue heron to go fishing. I would make that at least two feet above the water line. they can still grab an occasional fish but it makes them less successful. Right at 3 feet will guarantee they won't be dining at your pond . the owner shows his pond and it does have steep sides on three sides but his lot either allowed for that design or they did a nice job making it look nice.

Their bead filter is among the best, but is also the most expensive. There are others that are comparable.

Sacramento is all about maximizing the health of the fish by making it as close to a clean room for lack of a better term. Contemporary ponds have their place it just isn't my favorite. i do not mind seeing algae in the pond you will not find any pond without algae. And if my fish swim into a boulder and get a boo boo in our home we say you won't do that again we don't put them in a protective bubble. There are the concrete pond like the video you posted that maximize cleanliness. While the other side is the way nature has done it for millions of years. Both have a plus and minus.

One last mention to ponds, kids will spend the entire day catching frogs or small fish in a bog pond well call it. but in the same regard if kids are going to be climbing all over the pond and sticking their hands in every milk and cranny. its important to remove all these spaces by filling them in with stone or some other means

I definitely don't want a clean room or swimming pool. That sounds awful. I really love your pond but my space doesn't allow for the bog of that size. I'm considering some hydroponics. Thoughts on that Scott?

 

[tanyaclick]

The fish would be better off if you moved some of them. The moving would be much less stressful that keeping them in toxic water conditions all the time.

How did you clean the filters? If you threw away the filter pads, you threw away the beneficial bacteria. Filter pads are easily cleaned by just rinsing them in the water from the pool. And they need frequent cleaning. If you need new ones, keep the old ones in the pool for a month or two until the new ones get their own bacteria colony established.

Also, never rinse filters in chlorinated water. That will destroy the bacteria, too.

Most of us have liner ponds and have never had leaks, even with bottom drains. Waterfalls can splash water out of them if they are not built deeply enough.

If you build your pond correctly, there is no problem with a liner or with the waterfall.

I just rinsed them off

 

[tanyaclick]

You have a second temp pond why are you not using that? if i remember you wanted a bead filter buy that and hook it up to one or both of the temp ponds. Your a good Stewart observing the fish and conditions. are you converting the pool? whats the end game?

Did you say don't use Melafix?

 

[GBBUDD]

No , i was saying a healthy well filtered pond will prevent the need for it. There are times when medications will be needed. A DUCK A BIRD A FROG OR EVEN A TURTLE. could come visit your pond and bring unwanted hitchhikers.
But here's the thing in nature parasites are everywhere and a constant . the healthier the environment the more the parasites exist but they don't effect the fish.
Ever go fishing and you catch a fish and its so slimy you can barely hold onto it? thats a fishes immune system. So thats where the two views of ponding come in . It is much like people. You have those who live in a concrete jungle who still wear their covid masks that at best did next to nothing. And then you have the person who got covid got the antibodies and added that to their immune system. Some folks will insist on washing their hands before they eat, well after working in construction for almost 50 years i can say i'm still here after rarely washing my hands for lunch.

point is you can try to keep the fish in a sterile environment or you can allow nature to do its thing.

I did look at your list and i would strongly suggest the 3" g- tech 6.3 it increases the pond size and does so with adding to high head. I do wish they used a course thread on the fittings but that doesn't effect the performance. And you'll want to go for the unit that can handle about a 1/3rd more than what your pond actually is. I did recently install one and it works well but could be better. when you go to rinse using the ice pump which is a 2 hp the top of the filter has two plugs . What i found out that works the best is to CAREFULY open one of the plugs allowing an escape for the air pressure this really gets the media agitated forcing out the debris from between the nano beads. But you need to keep the plug inplace just not threaded in as the beads can occasionally come flying out. This is where i wish there was a valve instead of a plug.

The 5 wide area can be a form of an intake bay and or place that will be much easier to catch fish. When they start breeding you'll appreciate a way to give you the advantage in catching them

 

[GBBUDD]

I definitely don't want a clean room or swimming pool. That sounds awful. I really love your pond but my space doesn't allow for the bog of that size. I'm considering some hydroponics. Thoughts on that Scott?

Plants are plants so that part is similar but the gravel and graduated rocks is where the biological works as well as clarifies the water. i don't know enough about the media in aquaponic tubes to say one way or another if its comparable.

 

[Pablo]

Agreed......take half the water from the pool and place it in the other pool . Buy a large round 36 inch net to catch the fish use a koi sock to move them if they are bigger fish. Then add like 30 gallons a day of water that is of similar temperature . Your far better off with more water for the same amount of fish than to have more filters and for more fish.

One ton boulders aren't a big deal. They are easily set and manuvoured. A concrete bond beam is not a bad idea it is not needed with the right design. You can always build a shelf 2 feet below the surface stack some boulders that come shy of the surface and place the character stones on the boulders below that you just placed. IMO if your walls are vertical you better have wide rocks or where you can pull the bottom of the rock away from the wall so the Boulder can lean back. The last thing you want is a boulder to topple over because someone pulled on it trying to get out.
There is an advantage to concrete but there is also a price for it. But you can still have boulders in a concrete pond you just need someone who has a clue and is artistic.
Just like stairs in a unite pool or a swim out you can create similar to make shelves for choice rocks to sit. Agreed
You are getting info from the internet or others who built their own who may be a salesman or a pilot male man or a florest. HECK MAYBE EVEN A LAWYER @Pablo point being anyone can build a pond their first time and be very successful . HOWEVER odds are there will be issues. And yes the waterfall is a common area for such. Does it mean its hard or impossible to do no, not at all .

My new ad: "Slip and fall? call Paul and I will build you a waterfall"

 

[GBBUDD]

My new ad: "Slip and fall? call Paul and I will build you a waterfall"

lol ... Nothing worse than a lawyer who's funny , its like a slide of hand in a poker game. keeps you distracted while he empties your pocket.

should it not be Slip and fall? call Paul and I will build myself a new waterfall"