What is going on with these tests? And what impact does Amquel Plus have?

[crsublette]

View attachment 75112

Very nicely done. Smooth execution of a reasonably looking DIY partitioned filter. I like it.

Although, I think it might be too small to accomplish enough bio-filtering for you.

 

[crsublette]

I guess my argument in favor of the filter working is that until I went out of town the only bad readings I was getting were the nitrates. I didn't think any amount of bioballs would correct that. But its pretty easy for me to add more afterwards so I can give it a try. I really don't like bioballs though. My test numbers have been much better with the matala.

Tonight first I went and bought a new ammonia kit to be on the safe side. I tested a pretty solid 8 on the ammonia. So I changed about 40% of the water and added teaspoon of baking soda. Not sure I really want to raise the ph much with the ammonia readings.

Yep, good to be careful with raising alkalinity with high ammonia readings, but your bio-filter will be slower to start up again with low alkalinity. Best to continue doing water changes and using zeolite and AmQuel to keep the ammonia toxicity down while trying to increase alkalinity.

I know you initially did not have problems with the filter, but I have seen many of these and another or a bigger one like you constructed would be a big help.

 

[crsublette]

Well at some point it was cycled because I was getting very stable numbers. At this point hard to say if its cycled.

Larger water changes and a tablespoon of baking soda have made the test results slightly more reasonable. The matala matting really doesn't get cleaned but I do flush the box out and rinse off polyester filing because its filthy. I can wait much longer though before the flow is slowed down.

My current working theory is my PH crashed and might have killed off the beneficial bacteria I had. I will look up the bottom drain and can the rainwater come from my roof??

Yep, I agree.

I know it the same rain.

Wasn't sure about harmful things on my roof.

Today I have some Nitrites so hopefully its cycling.

Good deal.

 

[CometKeith]

I think a 80% water change is asking for trouble. Crsublette it sounds like you know what you are talking about so what are your sources? Most people here would strongly disagree with you on this.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

I think a 80% water change is asking for trouble.[/QU

How so?

 

[topofthehill1]

Very nicely done. Smooth execution of a reasonably looking DIY partitioned filter. I like it.

Although, I think it might be too small to accomplish enough bio-filtering for you.

I'm glad someone liked it. I can expand it pretty easy. I have another identical box. My original intention was to use both. But the need just wasn't there. The only thing I don't like about Matala is the price. I know everybody get defensive about their filter after they build it but for what I spent its the best performance I've gotten out of a filter. It handles the fish load very well. But I really hit a wall with the Nitrates.

 

[topofthehill1]

Yep, good to be careful with raising alkalinity with high ammonia readings, but your bio-filter will be slower to start up again with low alkalinity. Best to continue doing water changes and using zeolite and AmQuel to keep the ammonia toxicity down while trying to increase alkalinity.

I know you initially did not have problems with the filter, but I have seen many of these and another or a bigger one like you constructed would be a big help.

Do you always show up this late to the party?? Just giving you a hard time.

Hopefully this will be the end of my adventures. But for two days I had Nitrites up. Yes the weather had cooled off some. You mention adding salt to offset the rising Nitrites to help the fish through this but it was hard for me to wrap my mind around the baking soda and the salt not contradicting each other in some way. So I didn't do that. I had the salt available though.

Today's numbers the ph 7.4 to 7.6. Depending on which test kit I consult. Ammonia doesn't register, Nitrites doesn't register, Nitrates 20. Even with the baking soda the KH has fallen back to about 3 drops. in the 0-50 range. So I put the oyster shells in today and hopefully that resolves the problem. The farm supply store only had the granules of zeolite. Do I just through those in some pantyhose? I asked for a bigger size and they said that was the big size. The other size was powder. So where do I get the big zeolite?

Todays numbers were the first not scary numbers since I started this thread.

In hindsight if I had I known that I had completely crashed my filter I would have probably done an 80% water change and things would have probably resolved much faster. But using the AmquelPlus sent me down a path wondering if that had something to do with it. I do not believe that to be the case.

 

[topofthehill1]

Yep, even with the correct two solution test for ammonia, there will still be a false positive. Also, if testing for ammonia right after using a dechlorinator, then this can give ammonia false positives. Generally, good to wait 24 hours after any significant changes before re-testing.


Easy test to know if AmQuel is a false ammonia reading on test...

Fill jug of tap water. Dose the water appropriately according to instructions for the jug's size. Wait 12 hours. Do an ammonia test on the water. Once you know this, then remember this. When you add AmQuel to your pond and test your ammonia, then know that this small amount of ammonia will always register due to the AmQuel.

Good idea. I'm still going to try this to satisfy my own curoistiy

 

[crsublette]

Do you always show up this late to the party?? Just giving you a hard time.

Hopefully this will be the end of my adventures. But for two days I had Nitrites up. Yes the weather had cooled off some. You mention adding salt to offset the rising Nitrites to help the fish through this but it was hard for me to wrap my mind around the baking soda and the salt not contradicting each other in some way. So I didn't do that. I had the salt available though.

Today's numbers the ph 7.4 to 7.6. Depending on which test kit I consult. Ammonia doesn't register, Nitrites doesn't register, Nitrates 20. Even with the baking soda the KH has fallen back to about 3 drops. in the 0-50 range. So I put the oyster shells in today and hopefully that resolves the problem. The farm supply store only had the granules of zeolite. Do I just through those in some pantyhose? I asked for a bigger size and they said that was the big size. The other size was powder. So where do I get the big zeolite?

Todays numbers were the first not scary numbers since I started this thread.

In hindsight if I had I known that I had completely crashed my filter I would have probably done an 80% water change and things would have probably resolved much faster. But using the AmquelPlus sent me down a path wondering if that had something to do with it. I do not believe that to be the case.

It's all good fun. Just been very busy.

Baking soda and calcium chloride only conflicts if they are put in the same container or before either properly equilibriates in the pond. This is more so due to relative concentrations within a container more than anything else. Impossible for sodium chloride (table salt) to precipitate in the pond unless significant heat is applied; otherwise, these elements remain freely floating in the water. Chlorides are incredibly helpful to plant and fish. The sodium, over time, is what will increase your "bad" salinity (i.e., change your water's gravity), which is easily tested with a salinity refractometer, and this is why I recommend at least one slowly refreshed major (40~80%) water change once a year or whenever this salinity gets above 0.10%. The calcium and bicarbonate from these two products can form calcium carbonate when dissolved together so best to wait 24 hours between each to ensure both properly equilibriates throughout the pond. Plant's will experience phytotoxicity symptoms before the chloride ever shows any effects on the fish and this would mean the chloride level was allowed to be incredibly high, which is quite tough to achieve unless recklessly adding a tremendous amount of calcium chloride. Chloride is naturally occurring in water as various concentrations and, generally, water involving more city treatment or near the coast will have a higher chloride concentration. The chloride is what protects the fish from nitrite poisoning and this protection from nitrite is relative to the amount of chloride and nitrite. If you want to avoid baking soda, then you can use potassium bicarbonate (AquaBuffer pH Stabilizing); although, if you shop around, you might find some cheaper. Potassium Bicarbonate is better than baking soda except it is incredibly more expensive than baking soda and not so readily accessible.

Depending on how much oyster shells you put in your water, this might help. The trick with oyster shells is knowing how much you need and everyone's pond is different. Also, if the water is pushing through the shells, such as in a bog, this is much better since much more water will come into contact with the crushed shells. This is due to the complex crystalline structure of oyster shells and this structure causes oyster shell's dissolve rate to significantly slow down at around 7.6 and completely stop dissolving at around 8.2. Crushed oyster shells is one type of calcium carbonate. There are many types. For more info, post#6 in thread Raising KH with Coral or Oyster.

Yep, the farm supply zeolite granule stuff is good as long as it does not have anything weird in it, which you will know by looking at the ingredients list. Pantyhose would be good, but, be careful since over time these will decompose. Just be sure, as mentioned in the aforementioned zeolite hyperlink, to recharge the zeolite before using it.

Yep, 80% water changes are completely safe as long as the new water is added slow over a period of time and new water is not very acidic. If the water is quite acidic, then you might can only resort to 40% water changes while having this new water also filter slowly through some aragonite sand. Big water changes only shock fish or bio-filter if there is a sudden temperature or pH change, which is why it is done over a period of time of 12~24 hours.

You can figure this slow water adding rate easy by using a stop watch, a bucket, and a hose valve. For a 900 gallon pond, 80% would be 720 gallons, divide by 24 hours is 30 gallons per hour, divided by 60 minutes in a hour, 0.5 gallons per minute. If you have a bucket, then mark the 4 gallon level or 1 gallon level. For 0.5 gpm to fill 4 gallons, only takes 8 minutes or 2 minutes for 1 gallon. Get your stop watch, hose valve, and I think you know what to do now.

 

[Dave 54]

It's all good fun. Just been very busy.


Depending on how much oyster shells you put in your water, this might help. The trick with oyster shells is knowing how much you need and everyone's pond is different. Also, if the water is pushing through the shells, such as in a bog, this is much better since much more water will come into contact with the crushed shells. This is due to the complex crystalline structure of oyster shells and this structure causes oyster shell's dissolve rate to significantly slow down at around 7.6 and completely stop dissolving at around 8.2. Crushed oyster shells is one type of calcium carbonate. There are many types. For more info, post#6 in thread Raising KH with Coral or Oyster.

Yep, the farm supply zeolite granule stuff is good as long as it does not have anything weird in it, which you will know by looking at the ingredients list. Pantyhose would be good, but, be careful since over time these will decompose. Just be sure, as mentioned in the aforementioned zeolite hyperlink, to recharge the zeolite before using it.

As Charles has rightfully said crushed oystershell or Calsified seaweed (Lythaqua) if you can get it.
With the zeolite rocks it would be an idea to have two loads both in nets , keep one in the pond or filter , the other on standby then ecery few months change them over .
The used zeolite then goes into a bucket of salt water (a Mug and a half of cooking salt disolved into the bucket will suffice , place the used zeolite in this bucket for aproximately 48 hrs hen wash in fresh water (this zeolite is now charged and ready to go back in the pond at change around , then do the same with the used zeolite which is then ready for the next change over etc etc

Dave

 

[topofthehill1]

It's all good fun. Just been very busy.

Baking soda and calcium chloride only conflicts if they are put in the same container or before either properly equilibriates in the pond. This is more so due to relative concentrations within a container more than anything else. Impossible for sodium chloride (table salt) to precipitate in the pond unless significant heat is applied; otherwise, these elements remain freely floating in the water. Chlorides are incredibly helpful to plant and fish. The sodium, over time, is what will increase your "bad" salinity (i.e., change your water's gravity), which is easily tested with a salinity refractometer, and this is why I recommend at least one slowly refreshed major (40~80%) water change once a year or whenever this salinity gets above 0.10%. The calcium and bicarbonate from these two products can form calcium carbonate when dissolved together so best to wait 24 hours between each to ensure both properly equilibriates throughout the pond. Plant's will experience phytotoxicity symptoms before the chloride ever shows any effects on the fish and this would mean the chloride level was allowed to be incredibly high, which is quite tough to achieve unless recklessly adding a tremendous amount of calcium chloride. Chloride is naturally occurring in water as various concentrations and, generally, water involving more city treatment or near the coast will have a higher chloride concentration. The chloride is what protects the fish from nitrite poisoning and this protection from nitrite is relative to the amount of chloride and nitrite. If you want to avoid baking soda, then you can use potassium bicarbonate (AquaBuffer pH Stabilizing); although, if you shop around, you might find some cheaper. Potassium Bicarbonate is better than baking soda except it is incredibly more expensive than baking soda and not so readily accessible.

Depending on how much oyster shells you put in your water, this might help. The trick with oyster shells is knowing how much you need and everyone's pond is different. Also, if the water is pushing through the shells, such as in a bog, this is much better since much more water will come into contact with the crushed shells. This is due to the complex crystalline structure of oyster shells and this structure causes oyster shell's dissolve rate to significantly slow down at around 7.6 and completely stop dissolving at around 8.2. Crushed oyster shells is one type of calcium carbonate. There are many types. For more info, post#6 in thread Raising KH with Coral or Oyster.

Yep, the farm supply zeolite granule stuff is good as long as it does not have anything weird in it, which you will know by looking at the ingredients list. Pantyhose would be good, but, be careful since over time these will decompose. Just be sure, as mentioned in the aforementioned zeolite hyperlink, to recharge the zeolite before using it.

Yep, 80% water changes are completely safe as long as the new water is added slow over a period of time and new water is not very acidic. If the water is quite acidic, then you might can only resort to 40% water changes while having this new water also filter slowly through some aragonite sand. Big water changes only shock fish or bio-filter if there is a sudden temperature or pH change, which is why it is done over a period of time of 12~24 hours.

You can figure this slow water adding rate easy by using a stop watch, a bucket, and a hose valve. For a 900 gallon pond, 80% would be 720 gallons, divide by 24 hours is 30 gallons per hour, divided by 60 minutes in a hour, 0.5 gallons per minute. If you have a bucket, then mark the 4 gallon level or 1 gallon level. For 0.5 gpm to fill 4 gallons, only takes 8 minutes or 2 minutes for 1 gallon. Get your stop watch, hose valve, and I think you know what to do now.

Thanks for that explanation. Lots of rain today and the ph 7.5 but 5 lbs of oyster shells has left the kh completely unaffected on the test. However maybe they will prevent a total crash. Or I haven't waited long enough for the KH to become affected.

Still reading some Nitrites today. These bacteria are getting lazy I guess. I added 3 lbs of Morton water softener pellets today. Which proclaim to be 99% salt. I did a few google searches and I'm fairly convinced that remaining 1% isn't lethal. The zeolite and oyster shells from the farm supply did not have any other ingredients. Hopefully things will stabilize before the winter hits.

 

[topofthehill1]

As Charles has rightfully said crushed oystershell or Calsified seaweed (Lythaqua) if you can get it.
With the zeolite rocks it would be an idea to have two loads both in nets , keep one in the pond or filter, the other on standby then ecery few months change them over .
The used zeolite then goes into a bucket of salt water (a Mug and a half of cooking salt disolved into the bucket will suffice , place the used zeolite in this bucket for aproximately 48 hrs hen wash in fresh water (this zeolite is now charged and ready to go back in the pond at change around , then do the same with the used zeolite which is then ready for the next change over etc etc

Dave

Thanks, I will get a second set of zeolite. For some reason in my mind I thought it would be chunks of rock. I will also look into Calsified seaweed. Hoping the cycle will finish before the cool weather hits.

 

[CometKeith]

top of the hill, I can tell when my pond cycles because all the string algae disappears as soon as it cycles! For me it takes about a month in the spring. I once changed my liner in the summer and it took about a month to cycle again. I'll never do that again without a lot more preparation because I lost some fish in the process. Someone told me to reuse the old liner pieces on the bottom of the pond, but it was so muddy underneath them I didn't want to do it.

 

[topofthehill1]

top of the hill, I can tell when my pond cycles because all the string algae disappears as soon as it cycles! For me it takes about a month in the spring. I once changed my liner in the summer and it took about a month to cycle again. I'll never do that again without a lot more preparation because I lost some fish in the process. Someone told me to reuse the old liner pieces on the bottom of the pond, but it was so muddy underneath them I didn't want to do it.

Yes, I have algae and the oyster shells helped muddy the water too. Now I have decent test results but my pond looks terrible. Its funny how you can have terrible water conditions and crystal clear water. And then you can have decent test results and the pond look terrible.

 

[CometKeith]

yes, the pond keepers corundum, but with some patience when you finally get a good cycle going you get both clear water and healthy for your fish!