What is going on with these tests? And what impact does Amquel Plus have?

[topofthehill1]

I guess my argument in favor of the filter working is that until I went out of town the only bad readings I was getting were the nitrates. I didn't think any amount of bioballs would correct that. But its pretty easy for me to add more afterwards so I can give it a try. I really don't like bioballs though. My test numbers have been much better with the matala.

Tonight first I went and bought a new ammonia kit to be on the safe side. I tested a pretty solid 8 on the ammonia. So I changed about 40% of the water and added teaspoon of baking soda. Not sure I really want to raise the ph much with the ammonia readings.

 

[topofthehill1]

Interesting read but my test goes from yellow to green. I wish that was the answer.

Here is more info on the Amquel Plus http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/water-conditioner/amquel-plus#contraindications-toxicity!

You do have to make sure your ammonia test kit is compatible with this product.

This is taken from their site:
AmQuel Plus is compatible to use with those water quality test kits on the market that are fully effective (see note below), except for the ammonia test kits that use Nessler reagents that read in shades of amber or yellow, and the oxygen test kits that use Winkler reagents. Residual AmQuel Plus and its reaction products are incompatible with the Nessler and Winkler type reagents, resulting in false, high ammonia and low oxygen concentration readings.

Ammonia test kits using Salicylate-type reagents (reading on a colorimetric scale from yellow to green to blue green) are appropriate for accurate test results.

 

[topofthehill1]

It may be a good idea to look at the way your filtration is laid out it looks very hap-hassard from here .
What where the original diagrams of the filter like may be add some bio balls they may well help you somewhat or scrap this filter and make a couple of barrel filters .
The way our own filters are filled allows for movement of water between filter pads everything in your filter is squashed together somewhat (I know my own filters are larger than yours but it does work),,,,,

View attachment 75115

Nice layout.

The original diagram was on another page that I probably couldn't find right now. But it was Bottom drain, to settlement chamber, to lots of what I have in series. I guess the theory is that the different density of the matting encourage proper flow similar to the channels you created with your matting.

I'll add some bioballs. And I am implementing larger water changes.

 

[CometKeith]

Topofthehill, Do you think by cleaning your filters once a week you are killing of your beneficial bacteria? How do you know that your pond actually cycled?

 

[morewater]

Stop cleaning your filters so often. Only clean them when you notice that your flow has been reduced.

Start collecting rainwater in barrels and use that to replenish your pond. A collection of rain barrels in series can provide an awful lot of clean, no-treatment-required water and if planned correctly can be quite attractive.

BTW, you can buy portable bottom drains. Look them up, they're easy to install and relatively inexpensive.

 

[topofthehill1]

Well at some point it was cycled because I was getting very stable numbers. At this point hard to say if its cycled.

Larger water changes and a tablespoon of baking soda have made the test results slightly more reasonable. The matala matting really doesn't get cleaned but I do flush the box out and rinse off polyester filing because its filthy. I can wait much longer though before the flow is slowed down.

My current working theory is my PH crashed and might have killed off the beneficial bacteria I had. I will look up the bottom drain and can the rainwater come from my roof??

 

[morewater]

Sure, use the rainwater from your roof. It's the same stuff that falls in your pond when it rains. LOL

 

[CometKeith]

I have learned that my filter don't need to be cleaned so much when I raise my pumps so they are not too close to the bottom. This has a couple advantages. If your filter or hose ever springs a leak there will still be water in the pond for the fish. Also by not having the pump by the bottom you are cleaning the water and not the muck on the bottom that doesn't really bother anything. For most ponds that can be scooped out with a net and doesn't need to go through the filter. Some people use oyster shells to stabilize ph. I'm not sure you really want your pond flooded with rainwater. That can cause a whole new set of problems like displacing oxygenated water. Also sometimes water from a roof may have residue chemicals.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

The rainwater can mess with your ph as well (especially a lot of rainwater in a smaller pond)

 

[topofthehill1]

Sure, use the rainwater from your roof. It's the same stuff that falls in your pond when it rains. LOL

I know it the same rain.

Wasn't sure about harmful things on my roof.

Today I have some Nitrites so hopefully its cycling.

 

[topofthehill1]

My pump is off the bottom and once it really saved my butt. I have an airstone that stays in the lowest part of the pond. Nothing sprung a leak but I had one of those rubber fencos that moved enough out of place to direct about have the flow outside and half inside. It still drain the pond really quickly.

Nitrates still on the rise. So hopefully I see a drop soon and things will return to normal.

I have learned that my filter don't need to be cleaned so much when I raise my pumps so they are not too close to the bottom. This has a couple advantages. If your filter or hose ever springs a leak there will still be water in the pond for the fish. Also by not having the pump by the bottom you are cleaning the water and not the muck on the bottom that doesn't really bother anything. For most ponds that can be scooped out with a net and doesn't need to go through the filter. Some people use oyster shells to stabilize ph. I'm not sure you really want your pond flooded with rainwater. That can cause a whole new set of problems like displacing oxygenated water. Also sometimes water from a roof may have residue chemicals.

 

[crsublette]

My water parameters over the summer have been reading ok except the nitrate are 80-160 by the end of 7 days. Hard to tell exactly. I use API drop test kits. After 7 days 10-20% water change but my tap also has 10 ppm nitrates. Nitrates usually fall back down.
Gradually this problem was getting worse to where I was doing small water changes daily.

Problem gets worse due to the small water changes creating a higher pollutant equilibrium so the nitrates remain high. Eventually, these high nitrates will interfere with your nitrification. Your tap water with high nitrates makes the small water changes even worse by creating an even higher pollutant equilibrium.

10~20% water changes are only good for replenishing minerals and, when done daily, good for maintaining pH.

In these situation, you need to do a 40~80% water change and spread adding the new water over a 12 hour period to have a better result of reducing nitrates sooner.

 

[crsublette]

I get back after 8 days test the water. Nitrates are down to 20 ppm But the Ammonia has gone up to 1.0ppm Normally Ammonia would not register and Nitrates should be very high.

Don't understand but I change water 20% WATER and remove about 35 fish. Did not add amquel. After worrying about my fish for 8 days I vowed to resolve the problem when I returned. Feed same amount.

The next day Ammonia has gone up to 8ppm. Everything else not registering. Clean filter. 10% water change. Add about 1/4 dose amquel. The only chlorine remover I have is also an ammonia remover. I am beginning to wonder if this is a problem.

Next day ph drops from usual 7.2 to_6.0 I actually don't have the low ph test. Ammonia 2.0 and Nitrites 1 Nitrates 20-40
10% water change

Today PH 6.0, Ammonia 4.0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20. Temp 78F

10 % change, Add Amquel

Did I crash my filter?? Am I stuck in a vicious Amquel cycle? I guess I will continue with small water changes until things level out. I do not understand the Ammonia spikes when all summer the only readings that have been high were the Nitrates??

Filter is homemade Matala Matting and static basket. Fish get fed once a day in the evening. Water test are in the evening. API drop tests. Fish appear to be more active since I've removed the goldfish. Not staying on bottom. Koi and goldfish. I think thats the highlights.

Preparing for my lecture now.

What's your alkalinity? In this situation, much rather know your KH alkalinity rather than pH. With a pH change of 7.2 to 6.0, sounds like you've lost your alkalinity, creating a pH crash, and now your bio-filter is crashing.

I know high nitrates makes the nitrification lethargic, but I have never heard of high nitrates causing a crash.

No, Amquel did not crash your filter. Amquel was created so it can be abused. Ammo-Lock, which is just like Amquel, was specifically made so it can be abused up to 10 times the recommended dose without any impact on nitrification nor fish. Here is my post talking about how Amquel works (post#12 in thread really bad city water)


Major plus your fish are not on the bottom. Good sign that says they're not stress too bad yet. Actually, your 20% daily water changes might be reason why they are not stressed yet.


If your constant water changes from a water source that is quite acidic, with low alkalinity, then this could be the cause of the bio-filter crash.

You need to get a KH alkalinity test kit and also test your water source as well.

Get some baking soda and read the previous threads in this sub-forum about baking soda to do it correctly. There are so many threads now in the sub-forum talking about correctly dosing with baking soda that I can not choose which one to hyperlink.

I would definitely do a large 80% water change and be sure to spread out add new water over a period of 12~24 hours. Then, dose with Amquel and appropriately, slowly raise your KH alkalinity with baking soda and add some calcium carbonate (i.e., crushed oyster shells). Get some zeolite to help absorb the ammonia (click for more info). This is standard operating procedures for most water quality problems. If there is a rise in nitrites that is remaining, then us calcium chloride to protect your fish from nitrite poisoning (click for more info). If ammonia is still continuing to raise, then you will need to repeat this process from the beginning with the 80% water change until your bio-filter establishes again.

I hope the weather is not cooling down since this will slow down your bio-filter from establishing.


Will read rest of the thread here now...

 

[crsublette]

I think that when you add chemicals to reduce or bind the ammonia, your tests will still show high, even though the levels are reduced..... I don't know the chemistry involved, but that's what I've read.

Yes, test for KH. We can walk you through what to do if that needs to be adjusted. The KH of the water is a buffer that helps stabilize the pH.

Maybe @crsublette or @fishin4cars will chime in with some help.

And yes, you probably are over-stocked (sorry, but you knew the lecture was coming..... )

Yep, even with the correct two solution test for ammonia, there will still be a false positive. Also, if testing for ammonia right after using a dechlorinator, then this can give ammonia false positives. Generally, good to wait 24 hours after any significant changes before re-testing.


Easy test to know if AmQuel is a false ammonia reading on test...

Fill jug of tap water. Dose the water appropriately according to instructions for the jug's size. Wait 12 hours. Do an ammonia test on the water. Once you know this, then remember this. When you add AmQuel to your pond and test your ammonia, then know that this small amount of ammonia will always register due to the AmQuel.

 

[crsublette]

Part of your problem is that your don't have a bio-filter. Your current filter is a mechanical filter. I would strongly recommend making a DIY biofilter.

I have a Skippy filter on the pond and the primary filter media for bio is Matala. I also have a TT for my quarantine tank, and the primary media for that is also Matala [for the TT, I have the pump in a box with sponge pads to act as mechanical filtration before the water gets to the TT]. Both function very well for bioconversion.

Maybe his isn't large enough.....?

Simultaneously agree with both above.

If wanting to do this Skippy with matala as a bio-filter, then sounds like it needs to be done bigger.