What are your thoughts on global warming?

[mgmine]

Nothing much wrong with the models scientists do, they are just models

Nothing much wrong with dirt, over millions of years it has assimilated, swallowed up colossal amounts of carbon and locked it safely away, the extinction event of the permian period deep, deep down in huge hydrocarbon deposits.... which gleefully the dumbest nastiest people on the planet are determined to spew up to the surface and blast into the atmosphere....

Now the real world is a different beasty, it is way beyond anybodies control and most folk are determined to wreck it.... to cling to their suv's and a/c units by any means

Meanwhile in the real world, some folk speculate what the consequences of melting the antatarctic, will do:

I guess the point is that we should stop living a modern life. We should no longer drive or fly or use anything except solar and wind. We should follow the example set by all those making the claim that man is the problem and not nature. We should go to climate conferences in jet planes with 30 extra people per reprehensive instead of doing them work with a teleconference. We should sit around making millions off of research all showing the exact same thing. Heaven forbid that we say whether right or wrong we have to move ahead and plan for the future. Is it better to move away from a volcano or spend decades trying to stop it once it may or may not erupt? Is it better to plan for a tsunami or make plans on putting up a dam or dike to stop it.There is a line (or should be)between environmentalists and climate people. Environmentalists (the real nut cases) are the biggest hypocrites on earth . Unfortunately the two groups are starting to interbreed.

 

[morewater]

You are hereby issued 1 Carbon Credit.
Don't spend it all in one place.
Oh wait, you're not an international company.
Oh well, at least we tried. We should both feel better now.

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Cool, I can use it to pay for the soon-to-be toll roads in Toronto.

 

[mgmine]

Cool, I can use it to pay for the soon-to-be toll roads in Toronto.

Are they really going to start having toll roads? I hope not. Can you imagine having to stop on the 401 to pay a toll. It would make the 5PM traffic jam look like a day at the beach. I suppose they could make it an automated system like in Florida or the 407 but isn't that one of the perks of having high gas prices you can use the roads for free?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This is an example of what I was talking about re: weakening our economy and companies.
Our government is considering opening up more oilsands investment to China.
..and we all know how good China is with the environment.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...t-reviewing-ban-on-chinese-oilsands-ownership

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This is part of having trade agreements. If one side restricts investments then the other side will do the same. In this case, would the current Canadian investors in China be happy with having their options restricted more? It is the old two-sided coin.
http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...x/agr-acc/fipa-apie/china-chine.aspx?lang=eng

 

[Mucky_Waters]

It looks like it is a one hour video so I am going to wait and watch it on TV instead of the computer. What ever his position is I will give him all the time he needs to convince me.

Actually that video was the shortened version, and I posted it for you because you seem to follow the same sort of logic on climate change as he does, so you already appear to agree with him. He just has the data to support his (your) position.

 

[morewater]

Are they really going to start having toll roads? I hope not. Can you imagine having to stop on the 401 to pay a toll. It would make the 5PM traffic jam look like a day at the beach. I suppose they could make it an automated system like in Florida or the 407 but isn't that one of the perks of having high gas prices you can use the roads for free?

Nah, it's just the "tax 'n spend" municipal government that want to put tolls on the DVP and the Gardiner.

 

[Gordo33]

Great discussion with interesting points from both sides of the aisle. Here are a few 5 minute videos that were made to counter the media , government and IPCC portrayal . To add my two cents I remember Time magazine in the 70's put out an article about the coming ice age . Funny how that narrative is now global warming ...but wait that narrative has changed since the globe hasn't been warming in recent decades so now the narrative is climate change. Yes the climate changes but it has since the dawn of this planet. So do we need to bankrupt economies to support reports that may or may not be true. Should we deny developing countries what fossil fuels has provided everyone in this forum(see last video). Latest NASA report ,an organization promoting global warming , suggests the last 2 years inc temps are due to El Niño and now that we are out of this pattern we may begin to experience record cold weather. Who really knows. Seems like this is a dog chasing it's tail.
Should we be environmentally friendly absolutely. Lets get politics out of science and stop the fear mongering. If I remember correctly back during the 70s ice age scare an ivory league dude precticted Global food shortages. Probably won a Nobel prize! Hmmm don't see the world going hungry. Point being let Scientists do unbiased work to solve problems. Like the food issue , pollution and others we have over come with advances in technology. We don't need governments dumping money into bad technologies i.e. Wind and solar . Ok I feel better now.

 

[Gordo33]

Oh on the 97% of scientists agree

 

[Meyer Jordan]

AH! Prager University. A very staunch conservative website. No ideological bias in these videos!

 

[MitchM]

This is part of having trade agreements. If one side restricts investments then the other side will do the same. In this case, would the current Canadian investors in China be happy with having their options restricted more? It is the old two-sided coin.
http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...x/agr-acc/fipa-apie/china-chine.aspx?lang=eng

Yes, and I'm trying to remain optimistic about things.
It's a fact that a lot of oil companies are takeover targets right now.
While I'm happy that there will be more money coming into the province, I think China sees a weakness here that they can take advantage of.
Plus, last week our federal government approved a major expansion to a pipeline that will get more bitumen to the west coast. That has renewed China's interest in our oilsands.

,

 

[adavisus]

keep an eye on the north pole, if and when that goes, you are looking at a few things changing

A world going 30f hotter

That will affect demand for bitumen and oil

 

[MitchM]

As humans, the majority of us will adapt.

 

[mgmine]

Dick Rutan is a brilliant aeronautical engineer. By his own admission he is not a climatologist.. Nuff said!!

Well I got a chance to watch the Burt Rutan video thyet Muck Waters suggested. The issue isn't whether or not he is a climatologist the question is does he know how to read the data. Give the video a chance and at least watch it. He points out (using official data), what you don't see anywhere else. As the saying goes numbers don't lie but lairs use numbers. Is he lying? What does he have to gain since he isn't getting paid by research grants. What does he have to lose but his reputation? One thing I would say after noticing his bookcase behind him I wouldn't want to hire him as a carpenter! This is the type information that I would love to see debated on TV.

 

[mgmine]

keep an eye on the north pole, if and when that goes, you are looking at a few things changing

A world going 30f hotter

That will affect demand for bitumen and oil

I will also direst you to the Burt Rutan video on youtube that Muck Waters suggested. He points out a lot of things that I have felt for a long time but didn't have any data to back me up. As I stated when I started the thread I'm not convinced either way. It's tough to argue with the data but when you see what the data really means it's another story. It's a one hour video so unless you have an open mind you may not want to watch it. Interesting after watching that video I searched and found a lot of others. Some were just spouting the same old stuff from both sides but others made me stop and think. One thing I have learned in life is if there are two sides to something look at those that have an interest in the subject and see if there is anything in it for them. Burt Rutan as far as I can see has nothing to gain. The same goes for most of the deniers but not the alarmists.

 

[morewater]

Yes, and I'm trying to remain optimistic about things.
It's a fact that a lot of oil companies are takeover targets right now.
While I'm happy that there will be more money coming into the province, I think China sees a weakness here that they can take advantage of.
Plus, last week our federal government approved a major expansion to a pipeline that will get more bitumen to the west coast. That has renewed China's interest in our oilsands.

,

I think that Canada is going to wake up fairly soon and realize that our neighbor to the south isn't as friendly as we once thought, hence the need to find alternate trade partners.

Pipelines to both the east and west coast would go a long way in diversifying our customer base for petroleum products. I'm also a staunch believer in the building of refineries in Canada, rather than sending off our raw product for refining in a foreign country, only to have to buy it back to sell in this country.

Canada sees a lot of boogeymen in China, most recently seen when the Chinese were turned down by the Federal government from buying Bombardier's rail division.

If you look at the US national debt, and who actually holds that debt...........well, the Chinese are the de-facto landlords of the good old US of A. Few Americans realize that and are able to grasp the concept.