What are your thoughts on global warming?

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Meyer Jordan

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According to what I read the facts seem to be that co2 has been increasing and that they think that they have to reduce the amount of co2 going into the atmosphere. Co2 is only one of the things that cause green house gasses so to try and change it sounds to me like tinkering with what has been happening for eons. Evolution takes thousands of years to adapt to change. Plants have adapted over millennia to ratio of co2 in the air. To change that in the next few decades doesn't sound like such a good idea to me.Especially if plants are on an evolutionary trend that requires more co2 and not less. I'm not saying that this is so I'm saying let's at least study the benefits of climate change and the benefits are great. If you say something often enough and loud enough that still doesn't make it true. If you cut off dissension, which is exactly what the schools and scientific community are doing, there will only be one view.

Then, following your lead, man's actions in releasing CO2 and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere is also "tinkering". Man needs to restrict his "tinkering". That is what the Kyoto Protocol and the Paris agreement are all about.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that plants adapt to changes in their environment over millennia as you have stated, but the changes that are the subject of this discussion have (and continue to) happened over the course of decades, not millennia. No living organism evolves in such a short time period as decades.

Overall, I fail to see what "benefits" can be derived through global warming on this scale and at this pace.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Aging cities along the coasts will have been rebuilt to newer standards so that we use less energy. Sewers and water systems will be rebuilt

Exactly where would cities like New York, Miami or even Hong Kong be rebuilt considering the present population density of these areas.
The economic costs would be staggering. This is exactly why action needs to be taken now to limit the increase in global temperature. An increase on only 2C is disastrous. An increase of 4C (possible) would be catastrophic. The only way of accomplishing this is the reduction of CO2 emissions.
These projected economic costs are exactly what has driven the world governments to come together in Kyoto and Paris.
 
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The latest problem is dirt. Everyday common dirt that is everywhere on earth. It is putting out as much carbon as the total United States. What is the solution to dirt? What is the solution to methane gas? Are we going to regulate what animals eat and do? We can't fight nature Ignore and we don't know what else is contributing to greenhouse gasses . Man can be blamed for all evils because we can be regulated. The only thing that will be accomplished will be our downfall. Without an economy we can't survive. The cites like NY are already in need of rebuilding. Their infrastructures are already failing their buildings are in some cases 100 years of. The Brooklyn bridge was built right after the civil war. How long does a building last? Do you see many 200 year old building today? They out last their economic usefulness that is why they are still building new offices in NYC, Europe was rebuilt after the war so were other major cities, Yes it will cost money but so will trying to change nature. If the scientists are correct why are their models wrong?
 
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Nothing much wrong with the models scientists do, they are just models

Nothing much wrong with dirt, over millions of years it has assimilated, swallowed up colossal amounts of carbon and locked it safely away, the extinction event of the permian period deep, deep down in huge hydrocarbon deposits.... which gleefully the dumbest nastiest people on the planet are determined to spew up to the surface and blast into the atmosphere....

Now the real world is a different beasty, it is way beyond anybodies control and most folk are determined to wreck it.... to cling to their suv's and a/c units by any means

Meanwhile in the real world, some folk speculate what the consequences of melting the antatarctic, will do:

But, just like15,000 years ago, if the feedback mechanisms kick in, we can expect rapid melting of
Greenland and Antarctic ice and an overall temperature increase of 30°F.
For point of reference, the average temperature of the Earth (atmosphere, land and
top layer of the ocean) in 2004 is around 60°F. The methane hydrate release
projected here would raise the temperature to around 90°F or more. Such high
temperatures would undoubtedly destabilize all of the other methane hydrates in
the ocean and arctic permafrost, some 10,000 GtC or 620,000 GtC equivalent as
carbon dioxide. This would have the impact of 78,000 years worth of GHG warming
over a few decades. The temperatures reached and sustained would most likely
cause a rapid die off in ocean phytoplankton and other sea life as well as most land
plants and animals, including humans. The result would be a mass extinction and
mark a major transition point in the Earth’s geological history
 
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The latest problem is dirt. Everyday common dirt that is everywhere on earth. It is putting out as much carbon as the total United States. What is the solution to dirt? What is the solution to methane gas? Are we going to regulate what animals eat and do? We can't fight nature Ignore and we don't know what else is contributing to greenhouse gasses . Man can be blamed for all evils because we can be regulated. The only thing that will be accomplished will be our downfall. Without an economy we can't survive. The cites like NY are already in need of rebuilding. Their infrastructures are already failing their buildings are in some cases 100 years of. The Brooklyn bridge was built right after the civil war. How long does a building last? Do you see many 200 year old building today? They out last their economic usefulness that is why they are still building new offices in NYC, Europe was rebuilt after the war so were other major cities, Yes it will cost money but so will trying to change nature. If the scientists are correct why are their models wrong?
You sound like Burt Rutan. I don't now if you are familiar with him, but I've known about him for years because of my interest in home built aircraft. He has designed some of the most successful home built aircraft ever, and also designed the first aircraft to ever fly non-stop around the world without refueling (Rutan Voyager), and the first civilian aircraft to reach space (Spaceship One).
Anyway, he says his success is attributable to his ability to accurately analyze data without bias and apply it and make design decisions based on that data. As a personal hobby he has taken it upon himself analyze climate data and come up with his own thoughts on the mater.
He has given a number lectures on the subject some of which can be found online. He's not a polished speaker by any means, but he is very intelligent and if you can bare with him he brings some up some interesting issues.
Here is one of his less polished discourses on "climate change".
 

morewater

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I run 6 V-8 trucks. Am I bad?

I bought 18 goats this year through charitable donations, does this negate my footprint?

If I build a whack of ponds and populate it with 1000 plus marginals per annum (minus my diesel emissiIons, of course), am I good?

just wondering, pondering..........? Postulating, extrapolating, guesstimating..........

Guilt sux.
 
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Meyer Jordan

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Dick Rutan is a brilliant aeronautical engineer. By his own admission he is not a climatologist.. Nuff said!!
 
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I run 6 V-8 trucks. Am I bad?

I bought 18 goats this year through charitable donations, does this negate my footprint?

If I build a whack of ponds and populate it with 1000 plus marginals per annum (minus my diesel emissiIons, of course), am I good?

just wondering, pondering..........? Postulating, extrapolating, guesstimating..........

Guilt sux.

You are hereby issued 1 Carbon Credit.
Don't spend it all in one place.
Oh wait, you're not an international company.
Oh well, at least we tried. We should both feel better now.

.
 
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You sound like Burt Rutan. I don't now if you are familiar with him, but I've known about him for years because of my interest in home built aircraft. He has designed some of the most successful home built aircraft ever, and also designed the first aircraft to ever fly non-stop around the world without refueling (Rutan Voyager), and the first civilian aircraft to reach space (Spaceship One).
Anyway, he says his success is attributable to his ability to accurately analyze data without bias and apply it and make design decisions based on that data. As a personal hobby he has taken it upon himself analyze climate data and come up with his own thoughts on the mater.
He has given a number lectures on the subject some of which can be found online. He's not a polished speaker by any means, but he is very intelligent and if you can bare with him he brings some up some interesting issues.
Here is one of his less polished discourses on "climate change".

It looks like it is a one hour video so I am going to wait and watch it on TV instead of the computer. What ever his position is I will give him all the time he needs to convince me.
 
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This is an example of what I was talking about re: weakening our economy and companies.
Our government is considering opening up more oilsands investment to China.
..and we all know how good China is with the environment.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...t-reviewing-ban-on-chinese-oilsands-ownership

.
Sounds a little like Hillary Clinton allowing 20% of the U.S. uranium production to be sold to Russia. OPEC and Russia are going to start reducing output next year. The purpose is to drive up prices. If Bill Gates tried that he would be sued in every country around the world. Why can they get away with it? Hold on to your oil maybe someone will trump their offer.
 
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