Water Hyacinth Greenhouse

[j.w]

Wow I did not know we could have turtles in our ponds here in the PNW kind of close to your area. I always thought the turtles had to bury them selves in the soil somehow to survive the winters here. Just went and looked this up Mucky. Think they need a mud bottom to bury into:

What Turtles for an Outside Pond in BC?
By Cristine Travis, eHow Contributor
Water turtles add color and diversity to an outdoor pond, and the warm summers in British Columbia allow pond owners to enjoy seeing their turtles basking in the sun. The cold winter, however, can put some turtle species at risk. The best selections for an outdoor pond are turtle species that already live in British Columbia and thus are adapted to surviving harsh winters.

1. 
   Western Painted Turtles
   • 
     
     
     Western painted turtles are bright green with yellow stripes. As adults, their shells become darker green or gray and their stripes fade. Adults grow to 12 inches, and females are typically larger than males. They eat aquatic plants, fish, insects and decaying matter. These turtles are a vulnerable species and should never be taken out of the wild. Wild-caught painted turtles suffer from a variety of stress-induced illnesses, so owners should acquire these turtles only from breeders.
   Pond Turtles
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     Several species of pond turtles are suited for the climate of British Columbia. The western pond turtle in particular is an excellent choice. This species has been eliminated from Canada as a result of overhunting and habitat destruction. Nevertheless, these turtles are well-suited to the British Columbian climate. These turtles have smooth brown or gray shells with faint spots. They are easily differentiated from other water turtle species by their drab colors and lack of facial markings. They grow to be about 10 inches as adults.
   Red-Eared Sliders
   • 
     
     
     Red-eared sliders are among the most popular species of aquatic turtles. Though this species of turtle is not native to British Columbia, it was introduced in the late 20th century and has thrived there. In the 1970s they were frequently sold in pet shops as tiny hatchlings. When they grew into 12-to-14-inch adults, they died from inadequate care. In a large pond, however, these turtles are very hardy. They are bright green with white and green legs as hatchlings. As adults, their markings are fainter and they have darker green shells. They are named for the red markings just behind their eyes.
   Other Turtle Species
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     Several other species of turtles that are not native to British Columbia can be safely kept in outdoor ponds. Mud turtles are drab-colored animals that live in shallow waters. Cooters are brightly colored and thrive in warm weather. Snapping turtles can be challenging pets but will thrive in a large pond with lots of fish. Each of these species needs to be brought inside during the winter or provided with a pond heater and de-icer.
   Considerations
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     All pond turtles need at least 10 gallons of water for every inch of length, so a 10-inch turtle needs 100 gallons of water, and two 10-inch turtles need 200 gallons of water. Water turtles brumate -- a kind of hibernation -- during the winter, and turtles can survive very low temperatures when they have mud to burrow under. When the temperature drops near freezing, turtles need an air stone to maintain proper oxygenation. You should drill holes in the pond ice so the turtles can periodically come up for air. Some turtles may die from the stress of brumation, so it's a good idea to bring your turtles indoors during the coldest part of the winter. Most species of turtle that are not native to British Columbia will need to come inside when the temperature falls below 55 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Hey JW, there is a bit of inaccurate information in there.

I’ll start with the part about needing to bury in the mud to hibernate “brumate”. I can only speak for Western painted turtles, but I know for a fact they don’t need to bury themselves. Not only have I kept them in a my old pond (with no mud) through the many winters, but I use to visit local natural ponds during the winter when the ice was clear and you could clearly see the turtles below the ice near the shoreline. You could see them moving around down there in slow motion. Never did I see any of them make any attempt to bury themselves, nor did I see any even partly buried. I have seen turtles dive into ponds and bury themselves to try and hide when they felt threatened, but that was always in the warm months when they were active. In the winter it seems the ice is protection enough.

That blurb also says “
When the temperature drops near freezing, turtles need an air stone to maintain proper oxygenation. You should drill holes in the pond ice so the turtles can periodically come up for air” Not many natural ponds do I know of that have air stones or holes left open for turtles, yet they seem to survive year after year. Certainly it’s better if the water they brumate in is well oxygenated, for a variety of reasons, but they can, and do, survive without holes in the ice or air stones, and I really doubt a turtle would come up to breath through a hole in the ice even if you had one. I have never seen a brumating turtle swim, they just crawl around on the bottom very slowly.

The other thing that woman says when speaking about red-eared sliding turtles is ”When they grew into 12-to-14-inch adults, they died from inadequate care” The way she says that it makes it sound like every red-eared sliding turtle dies from inadequate care when it reaches 12 to 14 inches. LOL

Actually she list red-eared sliding turtles as thriving in BC, they might do OK where you are, but one wouldn’t last one winter here, they just aren’t hardy enough for most of BC’s climate, except maybe the coast where they get more moderate winters, and I think maybe that‘s where you can find the wild ones that have managed to “thrive“ in BC. You would definitely need to bring them in for the winter here.

Also, speaking about Western painted turtles she says “These turtles are a vulnerable species and should never be taken out of the wild. Wild-caught painted turtles suffer from a variety of stress-induced illnesses, so owners should acquire these turtles only from breeders.” I agree with that when speaking about adult turtles, but it’s a different mater when talking about hatchlings. Hatchlings have a very low mortality rate in the wild (everything wants to eat them), if you happen to find one and bring it into a healthy, protected environment you almost certainly would increase it’s survival rate ten fold.

　

 

[j.w]

That's good to know Mucky and it's interesting to hear how you have done it and have had success. So if I wanted a turtle or two I could have one you think w/o worrying about weather here? So a Western Painted turtle would be the ones to go with here prolly too as we can get in the teens and 20F's here and have gotten as low as -6F but only for a few days. How cold do you get there? The only thing I would have to do is make it so they can't escape and that is the hard part, that and a good filter for what they leave behind. Also what kinds of critters would bother them? Coyotes, dogs, raccoons? Just thinking about this and trying to figure out if it would be a good idea.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

-6 F ? I didn't think you get that cold there. We get a little colder here, down to -25 ºC = -13 ºF is not unusual. And we'll get a good 3 months of solid ice on the pond, and sometimes a little more.
And your are right, keeping them from trying to escape is the hard part, although if your pond is big enough, and suits them, they will stick around on their own. Getting them when they are young is the key, they don't like being displaced from an area they are use to.
Yep, Coyotes, dogs, raccoons, muskrats, any frog big enough to swallow them, gulls, snakes, you name it. Hatchling turtles have very soft shells, in fact often they get eaten before they even hatch, racoons are adept at finding and digging up their nests.
I just noticed I said "Hatchlings have a very low mortality rate ", I meant to say they have a very high mortality rate, in other words, not many of them survive to be adults.

 

[addy1]

Wow love the video thanks for taking it! that is beautiful. If I was a fish would be very happy in your pond.

 

[addy1]

Looked at the site, 99 for the case 299 for one camera, not too bad in cost. It sure takes great video

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Looked at the site, 99 for the case 299 for one camera, not too bad in cost. It sure takes great video

Actually Addy you can get a single camera and case and some mounts starting around $229. These cameras are designed for sports enthusiast who like to capture action video and they sell a variety of mounts that are geared towards different activities. (surfboard mounts, helmet mounts, chest mounts, etc...).
I originaly bought mine because my family likes to do kayaking, and I wanted a quality waterproof camera capable of captuing HD video, and this camera fit the bill. Since getting it a few years ago I have found a variety of other applications for it, and then we ended up buying a new 3D capable TV, and I thought it would be cool to shoot my own 3D video, so I bought the 3D case, since I already by this time bought a spare cameras anyway.
It's not your typical point and shoot camera, it doesn't even have a LCD screen on it, though you can buy a plug in one as an option, so normally there is no way of reviewing what you've shot until you hook it up to a computer. Nor can you view what your shooting like normal cameras, you just have to point it in the direction you want to shoot and hope for the best. It has a super wide angle lens, so it's pretty easy get what you want in the scene.

I`m a bit of a video aficionados, and what I find kind of cool is all I can show my kids is a dozen or so scratchy old photos I managed to save from my parents from when I was a kid, but my kids will have a bunch of high definition 3D video of themselves that they`ll be able to show their own kids, plus all the tons of digital photos and hours of standard video I shot since they were babies.

 

[addy1]

Neat, thanks for the info, my under water camera does video, it is a olympus,
I need to get some new batteries, the ones I have will not hold a charge. I have not tried to see how long it would last, usually when diving just do snaps.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Update on the water hyacinth greenhouse incubator.
When I started this thing I was having a problem with my ph being too high and the water hyacinth turning yellow, well things turned around 180 and with the buildup of sludge from dead plant mater I was starting to have a problem with the ph being too low, and again the hyacinth were turning yellow. So I desided it might be time to clean the whole thing out and start again, besided one time while I was getting some plants out I noticed a small fry swimming around in there and my curiosity got peaked.
Usually I just take the water hyacinth out of this greenhouse pond and put them in the main pond, from there they have slowly been turning yellow ( I think because of a lack of nutrients in the pond water), anyway, when they get real bad looking in the pond I usually just throw them in the compost pile, but on a few occasions I put some back in the greenhouse pond. Obviously those ones had some fish eggs attached to them and my water hyacinth incubator had inadvertantly become a goldfish incubator. While cleaning it out I caught at least 50 little fry which I placed back in the main pond.
What surprizes me the most is that they were able to survive in there at all with no filter, huge ph swings, and the concentrated levels of 20-20-20 fertilizer i have been dumping in there.

I guess it's true what they say,,, Life will find a way.

 

[pecan]

I thought I would add a few observations about my WH this year.

Last year all did poorly, yellowing and dieing. All floated freely in my pond.

This year I added some to the skippy tank and some to the pond. Both did well except the ones in the pond with roots getting eatin. I have been rotating them from the skippy into the pond and from the pond into the skippy to allow the roots to re-grow which has worked well and all were doing good. But now both the WH in skippy and the WH in pond are turning brown.

My conclusion is that last year since the pond was brand new there wasn't enough nutrients in the water for them to thrive. This year they did not start doing poorly in both locations till we consistantly reached over a 100 degrees. I think it is the temps causing it right now since they did fine when we were in the 80's and 90's.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

My conclusion is that last year since the pond was brand new there wasn't enough nutrients in the water for them to thrive. This year they did not start doing poorly in both locations till we consistantly reached over a 100 degrees. I think it is the temps causing it right now since they did fine when we were in the 80's and 90's.

Basically I think it comes down to them not getting enough nutrients, either because the nutrients are just not available, or because something is preventing them from absorbing the nutrients, like if the PH of the water is too high or too low.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Well today is Aug 7, so it's been just over 3 months since I started this little greenhouse for growing water hyacinths. The goal was to use the greenhouse to grow the water hyacinth earlier, and faster so that I could keep my pond well stocked. I'm happy to say I have met that goal, and maybe even exceeded my best expectations, even though they never really did grow or bloom as well as I have had them do in the past (in another pond). However, I have managed keep a nice healthy crop going in the pond and whenever they looked a little yellow or wilted I'd simply chuck them in the compost and replace them with fresh ones out of the greenhouse.
I even managed, quite by accident mind you, to raise a bunch of goldfish fry, that probably wouldn't have made it in the pond because the turtles ate eggs and small fry in the pond before they could get very big.
Anyway, it's now August, and since I have plenty of water hyacinth in the pond, and they are doing plenty well, I have decided I don't need the greenhouse anymore and will be shutting it down for this year, so I thought I post some final pictures before emptying it out.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2362-shutdown/



Below are the areas I currently have planted in the pond with the hyacinth.
They have really helped fill in areas between the other water plants, and added a lot to the greenery, not to mention given their contribution to the overall health and biodiversity of the pond. They add fantastic cover for the fish, frogs and turtles. Their roots give the fish a great place to spawn, this in turn provided the turtles a nice protein rich food source that I don't have to make or buy. They really are great pond plants.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2363-hyacinth1/



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2364-hyacinth2/

 

[adavisus]

Biggest casualty rate on turtles I've come across, besides hatchlings being just not able to cope with the turn in the weather from hot to cold, large snapping turtles have no scruples chowing down on small turtles...

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Biggest casualty rate on turtles I've come across, besides hatchlings being just not able to cope with the turn in the weather from hot to cold, large snapping turtles have no scruples chowing down on small turtles...

I think you may have this posted in the wrong thread Andy.

 

[sissy]

water lettuce I am going to over winter again and see if they make it .Dark on the roots and more fertilizer and water hyacinth does pretty good in the winter .I will move the lotus to inside too as not sure how hardy they are .





I really think if I had added more fertilizer last winter they would have been a lot nicer and bigger and since they are growing great this summer they should be even better next year
.Mine seem to do great in the filters