Split level pond

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I'm not really sure how you can connect the two bottom drains with out having the upper pond drain to the lower pond.
connected_ponds.jpg


Single mechanical filter, single pump, 2 tiered ponds connected by a bottom drain.

Almost free bonus... A second mechanical filter can be added to the water fall section between the 2 ponds and that filter would overflow over the falls. This "falls" mechanical filter can be as simple as a screen (sieve filter). A great filter because poo is removed from the water column 24/7, almost self cleaning. Because the water level in the top pond never changes (while the pump is running) 95% of of the complexity of a Cetus sieve is not needed, as no floating weir is needed. Just a simple screen. Even window screen is pretty good, but 200, 300 micron SS mesh is only about $7 a sq ft. So for a few dollars, a simple build and a tiny bit of design you get a $1200 state of the art mechanical filter. Why I love tiered ponds...they can make life easy.

Side benny...fish, especially good size Koi, will stay in the upper pond. When the upper pond has a spillway some fish always like to take the ride over and into the lower pond. Put them back and the next day...right back in the lower pond. Koi have a saying "The algae is always greener in the lower pond".

As a general rule, any place on a drain line where you step the diameter down, you should make sure that joint is accessible or has a cleanout close by since that is where things will usually get stuck. :grumble:
True. Even better general rule...don't step down drain pipes. :)
 
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Thanks everyone, I have been looking into vids on tube. Unfortunately I don't have a gravity fed flirt but pressure bead filter so need to feed a pump with gravity, however your drawing water bug is what I wa thinking. If I get. Chance I will draw up my thoughts to see what you all think.

Thanks again, have a good evening
 

sissy

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oh well thought you had a thing for your gravity fed .Never know with men these days :razz:
 
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Unfortunately I don't have a gravity fed flirt but pressure bead filter so need to feed a pump with gravity
Connecting bottom drains to a bead filter...with Koi. Pump grinds the poo into a Poo Frappuccino so a lot passes thru the bead filter and back into the pond as suspended matter. Plus you get to back flush the bead every few days once the macro algae comes on. Wouldn't be my first choice.
 
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Had not really considered that, I want to keep the filter as it is mature an has worked very well on my current pond, however I take your point. Would it be worth having a pre filter system with some brushes/filter foam to assist with the poo issue. I am defo going to put in a diy sieve if the top pond goes ahead so that I assume will filter that waste. I will have to be carefull that I don't get too much of a restriction for the pump though but it will help. Could I perhaps put in a more technical sieve prior to the pump? Like the nexus?
 

sissy

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I found some great deals on easternkoi.com .I am going to buy theleaf basket there 49 dollarswas the cheapest I could find it and the brushes on there were 4.75 not sure if that is a good price or not but happened to notice them while i was looking at the sight
 
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Would it be worth having a pre filter system with some brushes/filter foam to assist with the poo issue. I am defo going to put in a diy sieve if the top pond goes ahead so that I assume will filter that waste. I will have to be carefull that I don't get too much of a restriction for the pump though but it will help. Could I perhaps put in a more technical sieve prior to the pump? Like the nexus?
The subject of mechanical filtration I think is the most diverse in ponds. Many different approaches. Mechanical is also normally a multi stage type thing where you're trying to remove smaller and smaller bits at each stage while trying to also make maintenance easier. That makes it complex.

Pre-filter
Current state of the art imo is BD gravity fed sieve filter and then the pump. That should reduce 95% of the waste (assuming a good skimmer system and TPR system). It's effectiveness isn't just that it traps stuff but that it removes the waste from the water column automatically 24/7 and that it's easy to clean. These are very important factors. A filter that is difficult or expensive to clean stops being cleaned and becomes worthless. This was one factor in the decline of bead filters as many people had to clean them once a day. At 100-200 gals a day it became expensive to back wash compared to other choices.

Instead of a sieve there are many choices that I don't think really ever performed very well. Drum filters, end up clogging with bio film and it seems like they get used for a few years and then tossed. Settling tanks have to be large and the back washing cost of water adds up so these often get tossed after a few years.

Polishing
After the sieve the choices depend more on your goals. You could just pump to bio, UV and back to pond. Or you can add more mechanical like the bead. Bead filters for this use depend on the bead size. Smaller the bead, smaller the gaps between beads, smaller the particles trapped. Bigger the bead the less trapped particles but the better it works as a bio filter. But currently few people depend on bead filters for the bio...just not as good as other options. I'd say the current state of the art for removing small particles is a sand and gravel filter. These are back washed just like the bead. The only real difference between SG and bead filters is the size of the "beads". Sand being tiny can trap lots more stuff resulting in clearer water. Depends on you're goal. For many ponds, especially water gardens super clean water isn't needed to have acceptable clear water. Plants cover much of the pond so you may not see a lot of water. A 2' deep pond can look perfectly clear while that same water in a 5' deep pond may appear murky. The more particles you have to look thru the less clear the water appears. People often put pond water in a glass and see it's perfectly clear, like tap water, but wonder why their pond isn't clear.

DOC
The final stage for mechanical filtering is a foam fractionator, also called a protein skimmer. Here you're removing particles that are smaller than bacteria (DOCs). At this stage these are the state of the art and the only other options are chemical, like flocculation. There are different foam fractionator designs for getting more particles out but even a super simple design can be very cheap, easy to build, effective and 100% maintenance free.

Bog
Bogs cna be used as pre-filter and/or polishing filter. As a pre-filter the downside is it can fill quickly with muck and cleaning is difficult. As a polishing filter they act as a settlement chamber for small particles, but not very small particles. The down side is waste remains in the pond and continues to decompose which will add to the DOC level.

Main choice.
The main choice is whether to spend time during the design phase learning and designing or spend time later cleaning filters, changing stuff which can be difficult after the build. Most people seem to prefer the later on their first pond or two and the former on subsequent builds.

Disclaimer
Understand that I don't think BDs and mechanical filters are a requirement or even a plus on all ponds. Depends on the pond and the owner's goals. You mentioned BDs and so I'm just talking about BDs. I don't know anything about your design or goals, too few details given. I really don't need to spawn more threads on how WB is wrong to think every pond requires a bunch of complex mechanical filters.
 
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Thanks wb I actually appreciate all the knowledge you have, and yes I have read those threads where they trash your genuine assistance in one way or another. Fyi the beads I have are 2mm. I am also leaning towards the sieve for both ponds. How would you bypass the top sieve if it were to get cold in the winter?
 
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In ice over climates I'd shutdown the entire BD and skimmer system and just use the TPR system and mid level intakes instead of the skimmer. In deep ponds that may allow for warm water to stay on the bottom.

For climates where the pond iced over for two weeks or less at a time I would just shut down everything, or the above scheme.

But if you did want the the BD system to bypass the upper pond, like for treating fish maybe, I'd place a valve on the pipe between the BD pump and upper pond so flow to the upper is stopped and all flow went into the lower.
 
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Lol we had last year minus 18 degree c for nearly two months, a bit freaky for us but don't want the pump to blow a lid like last time, I am seriously gonna have to sit down and draw the pipes etc before any groundwork
 
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-18C??? I had to look up Milton Keynes on Google earth to see where you are. But really I didn't think it got much below 0C for very long anywhere in the UK.

I was reading a thread about a new pond being built in Norway I think. He was talking about how they had colder than expected weather and many people lost all their Koi. But most years I guess they survive, which impresses me.
 
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Yeah it was unusual weather for us, we get to around minus 4 or 5 as a rule in jan/feb but not normally as low as it was in the past two winters, I was more worried about the guinea pigs than the fish, but four inches of ice was tricky to manage. I only tend to loose fish (Rudd) when they get through the net on top of the pond when it has rained on it, the koi and carp aren't stupid enough to go near it.
 
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Hargen,

i haven't forgotten about the waterfall pics. My wife and I went biking on Saturday. I had my camera with me and the last ten miles of the ride we got hit with a really bad thunderstorm. My camera got soaked. I'm waiting for it too dry out. Hopefully today it'll work.

Craig
 

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