Question on water change

[Meyer Jordan]

You have 3,000 gallons? How many fish, how big and how often do you feed? If you minimally, less than once a day, feed and have extra room with good marginal plants than no water change; if you are at stocking limits or a little over and feed 2 or 3 times a day that probably yes to water change. Hope that is helpful.

This is equating water changes with the control of Nitrogenous waste that is produced within the pond. If this level begins to exceed accepted parameters then additional biofiltration is indicated. Water changes, in this scenario, though effective are only a stop-gap temporary remedy to an otherwise permanently correctable issue and should never be considered as an adequate or suitable replacement to biofiltration.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You have made it this far through the weeds and we only lost 1 member that was banned I think DM. @budgenator poster a video link by Dr. Erik Johnson and just watched the following by him recommending 10% a week and one of the top ten mistakes.

EDIT: clean up double link

He also recommends as "awesome" the Trickle system similar to what @Mucky_Waters has on his pond. If water changes are to be done on a recurring basis, the Trickle method os the least intrusive.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Who is saying it doesn't have an effect of the fish producing it?

It is not uncommon for animal to excrete chemicals that effect the animals around them whether it be simple ammonia to something more seasonal like sex pheromones (hormones?). Plants and biological filters can take care of ammonia but we know that sometimes the fish in our ponds can go quite crazy during spawning where the males will chase the females around to the point of physical exhaustion or even to death. In a natural setting the female has the option that they can generally get far enough away from the males may not be able to pick up her sent, but in a closed system the males will be constantly exposed to what would be abnormally high concentrations of the (pheromones?) the female is producing. (I think we have discussed this before). This might be one readily observable circumstance where frequent water change might be useful and save the life, or health, of overly stressed fish.
Its all about the differences between a closed systems as opposed to open systems.

We are having the same problem that we have had in past discussions.......Terminology.
There is a difference between hormones and pheromones.
Hormones are produced by the endocrine system and internalized.
A pheromone is a secreted or excreted chemical factor that triggers a social response in members of the same species.
Since somatostatin is designated to be a growth hormone by the scientific community, then it follows that it is internalized and not secreted or excreted.

I got a chuckle from your spawning example. I could mentally envision a person frantically pumping water from their pond in an effort to minimize or stop the spawning process. Lots of luck with that!

 

[Gemma]

Personally I do both, and I do a number of other things to my pond like net out dead plant and algae debris once in a while and have a Phoam Phractionator (protein skimmer) set up to remove DOCs. I do these things not because I have to or feel they are absolutely necessary, but because I can, and I know every little bit helps, and mostly because I enjoy the hobby.

That is exactly how I feel! I don't mind the "unnecessary" extra work, I'm ok with "over-killing it" to be on the safe side!

 

[Gemma]

You have 3,000 gallons? .

That's what I was told by the contractor I hired!

The bottom tank measures 8' x 14' x 4.5' deep...not sure if you count the top where waterfall spills and the plants are but it is roughly (it curves) 3' x10' x1' deep

 

[Gemma]

Also, making smart choices of which sex of fish a person is going to keep is a good idea to begin with.

I'm trying to keep just males, is that a smart choice?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I'm trying to keep just males, is that a smart choice?

Maybe for you, but I kinda like the idea of keeping a lot of captive females.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I got a chuckle from your spawning example. I could mentally envision a person frantically pumping water from their pond in an effort to minimize or stop the spawning process. Lots of luck with that!

Meyer my only purpose here in this forum is to make you laugh. I'm glad I succeeded in that in some small way.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyer my only purpose here in this forum is to make you laugh. I'm glad I succeeded in that in some small way.

I apologize if you took personal offense to my post. None was intended.
I do not apologize for finding the example humorous, because it is.

 

[Angel]

Maybe for you, but I kinda like the idea of keeping a lot of captive females.

 

[Tula]

@Gemma , I just finished rounding up 27 babies from this year's spawn. It's quite a bit of work and I know the smart thing to do, would be go to a single sexed pond. Spring of 2018, I'm going to use DIY spawning mops to assist in physically removing more eggs from the pond, hoping most of the others are eaten.

That said, every year, some survive...the numbers have gone down....but they manage to hide in plants and lily pots....so "The Great Koi Round Up" is an annual event. Turned 60 this year, so it's get harder climbing into the pond with my waders, but it'll be very hard for me to decide which fish to rehome, as I love all four

 

[Gemma]

@Gemma , I just finished rounding up 27 babies from this year's spawn. It's quite a bit of work and I know the smart thing to do, would be go to a single sexed pond. Spring of 2018, I'm going to use DIY spawning mops to assist in physically removing more eggs from the pond, hoping most of the others are eaten.

That said, every year, some survive...the numbers have gone down....but they manage to hide in plants and lily pots....so "The Great Koi Round Up" is an annual event. Turned 60 this year, so it's get harder climbing into the pond with my waders, but it'll be very hard for me to decide which fish to rehome, as I love all four

I can't do what you do every year!
It's not just the time/work, it's the having to find suitable homes for dozens of fish that made me choose to keep males only
I have 2 female bought last year that will have to go in Spring time, and I feel bad cause I actually really like the metallic orange and silver one...but hey, they've already grown a lot in just one year, and if I wait any longer I risk that they get too large for anyone to take them

You are doing a great job with those 4 koi, you're so loyal! I admire all your effort to keep all 4!

 

[Tula]

I'm really hoping the DIY spawn mops help next Spring. All 27 are safely in the big pond at the nursery - landscaping place, my pond is refilled...and I'm ready for a nap !

 

[MitchM]

I'm trying to keep just males, is that a smart choice?

@Gemma , I just finished rounding up 27 babies from this year's spawn. It's quite a bit of work and I know the smart thing to do, would be go to a single sexed pond. Spring of 2018, I'm going to use DIY spawning mops to assist in physically removing more eggs from the pond, hoping most of the others are eaten....

(I forgot to hit the "Post Reply" a couple of hours ago...)

 

[Meyer Jordan]

(I forgot to hit the "Post Reply" a couple of hours ago...)

It is a relief to learn that I am not the only one who does this. More often than I care to admit.