Question on fish load

[Jimmy Gibson]

I need help in figuring out if my pond is over stocked, and how many fish should move to the new pond!

If I understood correctly there isn't a specific formula that works for every pond to determine the fish load it can safely support, right? So can you please help me figuring out what my particular system can support?

My pond is roughly 3,800gl, the pump is 6000gph, I have a large skimmer with a net, a mud pad and 2 additional finer pads, I have 2 bio falls (24" and 26" opening) stocked with media, a 55 UV light with its own pump
I rinse the bio falls media once a year (Spring cleaning) and the skimmer pads daily.
I test ammonia (0) and Nitrite (0) weekly.
I feed 2-3 times x day in the Summer, 1-2 in the Fall.

Fish load at the moment: 2 Shubunkins, 9 large koi, and 4 babies purchased with the intention of moving them to the other pond once ready.

The pond construction is taking longer than we thought, how long can my pond support all these fish, and should I move more than just the 4 babies, to the new pond?

@Jimmy Gibson I can't always follow threads, I didn't understand if your fish loss was a result of overstocked?

Yes......definitely.....I made the biggest mistake that any first year ponder can do......too many fish when fall, cool water comes......at the beginning of our first year we had the right amount of fish, eight Koi in a 3000 gallon pond......all my bio filtration was working great.....we put lots of plants in.....ammonia and nitrates were great......then love took over my pond and suddenly I have 55 babies......they grew and we stupid enough to get a couple more fish that we came across......but even at that during all that time water chemistry was great......we ended up giving away 47 4" long Koi......so things were great still good water.....then right before the first frost I took in three more Koi that I called "Rescue fish".....because I felt sorry for them.......but even then I still had good water chemistry......but when the water cooled off and the plants died.....the bacteria died off......my pond "Crashed"......At the time of the crash I am ashamed to say I had 17 Koi a lot of them very big...... They died from a parasite...... Out of all of them only four surviving over the winter......two of them this spring I relocated to a friends farm pond that has lots of Koi in it......so right now I have 9 Koi in 3000 gallons.....two of them are going to a new home when I can catch them (nothing wrong with them just don't look like I want )..... So this winter I am going to have seven......so what I have learned is that I have an awesome bio filtration system as long as the water is warm and plenty of plants.....so I am trying to learn from my mistakes...... Less Koi means better Koi

 

[Telion]

Lol homework for me here, just saw this after posting a similar situation.

 

[Telion]

Yes......definitely.....I made the biggest mistake that any first year ponder can do......too many fish when fall, cool water comes......at the beginning of our first year we had the right amount of fish, eight Koi in a 3000 gallon pond......all my bio filtration was working great.....we put lots of plants in.....ammonia and nitrates were great......then love took over my pond and suddenly I have 55 babies......they grew and we stupid enough to get a couple more fish that we came across......but even at that during all that time water chemistry was great......we ended up giving away 47 4" long Koi......so things were great still good water.....then right before the first frost I took in three more Koi that I called "Rescue fish".....because I felt sorry for them.......but even then I still had good water chemistry......but when the water cooled off and the plants died.....the bacteria died off......my pond "Crashed"......At the time of the crash I am ashamed to say I had 17 Koi a lot of them very big...... They died from a parasite...... Out of all of them only four surviving over the winter......two of them this spring I relocated to a friends farm pond that has lots of Koi in it......so right now I have 9 Koi in 3000 gallons.....two of them are going to a new home when I can catch them (nothing wrong with them just don't look like I want )..... So this winter I am going to have seven......so what I have learned is that I have an awesome bio filtration system as long as the water is warm and plenty of plants.....so I am trying to learn from my mistakes...... Less Koi means better Koi

Wow that is tragic sorry for your loss. You mentioned so.ethi g I had not thought of being that my primary filtration is a bog filter. I would like to ask the group would it make since to run a mechanical filtration of sorts in the late fall till the fish go into a non feeding state? I anticipate a lot of my plant life will die off for the winter before the fish go dormant

 

[carolinaguy]

The weight estimate is easy. There is a graph where the entry argument is standard length, or the length from where the tail starts, the peduncle, and the nose. 13 inches is a pound. 28 is 15 pounds I think. 10 gallons a pound is a problem. 30 to 50 is common. 60 to 80 is a championship pond. Above 80 is a natural watergarden. It doesn’t sound like you are headed for a problem.

 

[Gemma]

Yes......definitely.....I made the biggest mistake that any first year ponder can do......too many fish when fall, cool water comes......at the beginning of our first year we had the right amount of fish, eight Koi in a 3000 gallon pond......all my bio filtration was working great.....we put lots of plants in.....ammonia and nitrates were great......then love took over my pond and suddenly I have 55 babies......they grew and we stupid enough to get a couple more fish that we came across......but even at that during all that time water chemistry was great......we ended up giving away 47 4" long Koi......so things were great still good water.....then right before the first frost I took in three more Koi that I called "Rescue fish".....because I felt sorry for them.......but even then I still had good water chemistry......but when the water cooled off and the plants died.....the bacteria died off......my pond "Crashed"......At the time of the crash I am ashamed to say I had 17 Koi a lot of them very big...... They died from a parasite...... Out of all of them only four surviving over the winter......two of them this spring I relocated to a friends farm pond that has lots of Koi in it......so right now I have 9 Koi in 3000 gallons.....two of them are going to a new home when I can catch them (nothing wrong with them just don't look like I want )..... So this winter I am going to have seven......so what I have learned is that I have an awesome bio filtration system as long as the water is warm and plenty of plants.....so I am trying to learn from my mistakes...... Less Koi means better Koi

Oh @Jimmy Gibson I'm so sorry!
Thank you for sharing this, your experience will help many members (me for one)
not to make the same mistakes!
More than a bio shortage, could this have been due to inadequate oxygen level?
Do you shut down your system in the winter? Do you have a pond aerator (not just a bubbler)
Not criticizing, I'm just trying to figure out the many factors that could have contribute to this tragedy

Wow that is tragic sorry for your loss. You mentioned so.ethi g I had not thought of being that my primary filtration is a bog filter. I would like to ask the group would it make since to run a mechanical filtration of sorts in the late fall till the fish go into a non feeding state? I anticipate a lot of my plant life will die off for the winter before the fish go dormant

I run my entire system (aside from UV ) non stop!
I do it to keep the water circulating, and because I'm convinced that if bacteria (perhaps not all) can live in the freezing Arctic, there's got to be some alive in ponds, in the winter...unless of course one turns off the pump and blocks oxygen supply

 

[Gemma]

The weight estimate is easy. There is a graph where the entry argument is standard length, or the length from where the tail starts, the peduncle, and the nose. 13 inches is a pound. 28 is 15 pounds I think. 10 gallons a pound is a problem. 30 to 50 is common. 60 to 80 is a championship pond. Above 80 is a natural watergarden. It doesn’t sound like you are headed for a problem.

Thank you!

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

Oh @Jimmy Gibson I'm so sorry!
Thank you for sharing this, your experience will help many members (me for one)
not to make the same mistakes!
More than a bio shortage, could this have been due to inadequate oxygen level?
Do you shut down your system in the winter? Do you have a pond aerator (not just a bubbler)
Not criticizing, I'm just trying to figure out the many factors that could have contribute to this tragedy

I run my entire system (aside from UV ) non stop!
I do it to keep the water circulating, and because I'm convinced that if bacteria (perhaps not all) can live in the freezing Arctic, there's got to be some alive in ponds, in the winter...unless of course one turns off the pump and blocks oxygen supply

No I run my pump and bio filter year round.....and it is a very robust pump and waterfall system and I run my aeration (very robust also ) until the water temperature gets closer to freezing.....the simple answer to my problems was I had way too many fish and the bio filters could not handle the load in the cooler temps......plus I introduced some infected fish into a pond that the water chemistry was on the edge......all that being said I have learned my lesson. .....I know what the capabilities of my pond is......have beautiful fish this summer.....will have less fish going into winter......live and learn

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

I would suggest, if you are willing to do the research search this forum and other forums about how many Koi per gallon......(I did this over the winter while I was brooding over the loss of my fish) get as many as many as you can that is clearly defined as to how many Koi they have per gallons of pond volume......I threw out the top five and the bottom five and then took a average of the middle.....and I came up with 438 gallons per fish......of course this is strictly speculation since I don't know each ones filtration, pond shape, if they look at their pond three times a day or once every two weeks...... But it's the formula I am going to use going into winter.....seven fish per 3000 gallons.....I will let you know next spring how it works......Jimmy

 

[Gemma]

I would suggest, if you are willing to do the research search this forum and other forums about how many Koi per gallon......(I did this over the winter while I was brooding over the loss of my fish) get as many as many as you can that is clearly defined as to how many Koi they have per gallons of pond volume......I threw out the top five and the bottom five and then took a average of the middle.....and I came up with 438 gallons per fish......of course this is strictly speculation since I don't know each ones filtration, pond shape, if they look at their pond three times a day or once every two weeks...... But it's the formula I am going to use going into winter.....seven fish per 3000 gallons.....I will let you know next spring how it works......Jimmy

I've already read a lot about number of koi x gallon, too much controversy it didn't help!
If your calculations are right, I could safely have 8 or 9 in my pond (3800gls), 2 are shubunkins so I'm thinking a total of 10 fish (8 koi 2 shubs) should be the most I should try to keep, which is what I've been keeping up until getting the babies for the new pond

 

[Tara]

Been unsure about stocking also, I went with the middle estimate. I was told one koi fish per 1000 gallons, I also read one Koi fish per 400 gallons, so I have five small Koi in approximately 3700 gallons. Only time will tell.

 

[Gemma]

Been unsure about stocking also, I went with the middle estimate. I was told one koi fish per 1000 gallons, I also read one Koi fish per 400 gallons, so I have five small Koi in approximately 3700 gallons. Only time will tell.

If you can be brave and don't add anymore, you should be fine!...but will you be able to resist temptation?

 

[Tara]

I really, really want a white butterfly Koi. I will be good though, but it's sooooo hard, Koi are sold only two miles from my house. I have to chant in my head just keep driving.

 

[mrsclem]

I'm happy with our fish load now. I done even look at fish anywhere anymore. Too much temptation. A few years ago we had between 2-3 dozen koi in each pond! When your filters can't keep up and fish start getting ill, it's time to rethink.

 

[carolinaguy]

Your 438 gallon number will work just fine. Figure 15 pounds for a full size adult unless you have one of the Sakai giant females that weigh 30 to 40 pounds and you get about 28 gallons a pound. We try to stay in the 30 to 40 range. Anything above 10 gallons a pound can work. The lower you go the more you must clean the filters. Champion show ponders will give you the really high numbers like 1000 gallons a fish, but they have different problems than you have so don’t worry about that advice. Different ponds have different standards.

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

Been unsure about stocking also, I went with the middle estimate. I was told one koi fish per 1000 gallons, I also read one Koi fish per 400 gallons, so I have five small Koi in approximately 3700 gallons. Only time will tell.

Tara......having made my share of mistakes in my first year ponding......with that being said I really know the temptations.....just one more won't hurt, and it might not.....but if I were you I would wait until next spring for any more fish and see how your filtration works out during the winter......then you have all winter to wanting to Lust over new fish you might be able to have next year......P. s......don't go to Next Day Koi.....Lol Jimmy