Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

@GBBUDD I'm about to place the true union ball valve right after my pump vault exit, as you suggested, when a question popped into my over analytical head,.. can I place the flex pvc into one end of the ball valve, or is it better if I cut a piece of pvc, place into ball valve, then use an adapter and cement flex into pvc fitting?

 

[GBBUDD]

Between all your joints you always want to leave some pipe be it flex or hard . That way if you need to alter it you don't loose a bunch of fittings. Flex pipe should be used with quote pressure pvc fittings . The only difference is the receiving end has more material to glue to . Standard pvc fittings today like everything they keep trying to make them as inexpensive as they possibly can and that's on place they keep cheating out on so it's much easier and secure using pressure schedule 40 pvc fittings. 80 can be used as well but get expensive . But when it comes to ball valves I only buy schedule 80 because they are higher quality and last much lomger.

 

[msr0459]

Between all your joints you always want to leave some pipe be it flex or hard . That way if you need to alter it you don't loose a bunch of fittings. Flex pipe should be used with quote pressure pvc fittings . The only difference is the receiving end has more material to glue to . Standard pvc fittings today like everything they keep trying to make them as inexpensive as they possibly can and that's on place they keep cheating out on so it's much easier and secure using pressure schedule 40 pvc fittings. 80 can be used as well but get expensive . But when it comes to ball valves I only buy schedule 80 because they are higher quality and last much lomger.

Well, I have no idea what I purchased. It was from my local Lowe's, pretty sure all the random fittings and the 10' piece of 2" pvc were labeled "schedule 40", but I'd bet they weren't pressure fittings. Also not sure about the ball valves. All I know is they were 2" True Union ball valves, Amazon's description is:
True Union Ball Valves Kit, 2'' UPVC Full Flow Ball Valves Set, ASTM EPDM O-ring, Rated 200 PSI, 2pcs Heavy Duty PVC Union Ball Valves with Slip Socket Full Port, for Various Water Control System

I do have a random question regarding waterfall pumps in general. I started dry fitting the plumbing today, and next I'll need to go ahead and cement everything together. My vault has about a foot of rain water in it already. I'll need to submerge both of my pumps in order to make sure everything lines up ok before cementing. At this point I'll be lucky if I can get my main stream functional before the colder weather sets in. Is it OK for my 2nd pump to just sit in the water without running? Heck, it may be spring before I can finish the 2nd stream and able to fire up the 2nd pump. If not, I guess I'll just hold off on cementing all the 2nd pump pvc connections.

Thanks!

 

[GBBUDD]

make sure you install a union on any lines so you can replace or service your pumps.

200 psi if more than fine

much better leaving the pump out of the water if not running but place it in a trash bag to keep seals from drying out

after you finish the dry fit take a permanent marker and draw a line from one fitting to another and be generous with the line . this is what you will need to line the pieces back up properly. and make sure you use primer cleaner when gluing

 

[msr0459]

make sure you install a union on any lines so you can replace or service your pumps.

200 psi if more than fine

much better leaving the pump out of the water if not running but place it in a trash bag to keep seals from drying out

after you finish the dry fit take a permanent marker and draw a line from one fitting to another and be generous with the line . this is what you will need to line the pieces back up properly. and make sure you use primer cleaner when gluing

Had to look up what a "union" was. I assume it's the same type of connection that's on the True Union ball valves? I don't as of yet have any in line, however, I do have a check valve on top of the pump, which has a threaded section on the bottom and top,... I suppose that would allow me to disconnect from the pump if I need to replace or service. I am now a little concerned though at the fact that I siliconed the threads of the pipe coming out of the top of the pump,...as I'm sure it'll be VERY difficult to unscrew whenever I need to.

Yep, was already planning on using a marker to draw lines. Will need to do the same on the main pump, as I can't really cement it in until it's sitting inside the pump (in the dang rain water), because I then have to situate everything so the pipe exits the 3" hole I cut in the vault.

Also worried that some of the larger dried up leaf fragments that made it into the basin will clog up the pump(s). The OASE brand says it'll pass up to 1/4" debris, and there's for sure some larger pieces in there. *Is there not some sort of fine mesh covering or something I could put the pumps in to prevent that?

I'm using the OATEY purple primer along with their Medium Blue Hot Lava Cement.

 

[msr0459]

@GBBUDD , regarding the in line unions and my aforementioned check valves,.... after closer inspection I still can't see a way to disconnect if I ever needed to service the pumps. You can see in the picture where the top and bottom threaded collars are on the check valve,.. the pipe connected on bottom and top will be cemented into the check valve, so when I try to unscrew the collars the pipe will also move? Dies that make sense?

At any rate I was thinking maybe I need to cut and put in a union where the blue x is? That way at least I could unhook and lift out. Am I thinking correctly?

 

[GBBUDD]

THE NUT JUST TO THE LEFT OF YOUR BLUE X IS A NUT THAT IS HOW YOU TAKE IT APPART , YOU DO NOT GLUE THAT THERE SHOULD BE THREAD AND A RUBBER RING IN THERE

 

[GBBUDD]

I am now a little concerned though at the fact that I siliconed the threads of the pipe coming out of the top of the pump,...as I'm sure it'll be VERY difficult to unscrew whenever I need to.

good grief, yes odds are you just made your union unusable. that just cost you 30 bucks for an other. Those Pumps look really small like under 2000gph that won't be a very dramatic water fall . if you control all the water have distinct flat falls it may be enough.

 

[GBBUDD]

how big is your reservoir?

 

[msr0459]

THE NUT JUST TO THE LEFT OF YOUR BLUE X IS A NUT THAT IS HOW YOU TAKE IT APPART , YOU DO NOT GLUE THAT THERE SHOULD BE THREAD AND A RUBBER RING IN THERE

I get it, but it seems that the small piece of grey pipe just to right of that collar, moves when I try to unscrew it, thus making it impossible to disconnect because the white pvc is cemented.

 

[msr0459]

good grief, yes odds are you just made your union unusable. that just cost you 30 bucks for an other. Those Pumps look really small like under 2000gph that won't be a very dramatic water fall . if you control all the water have distinct flat falls it may be enough.

Live and learn for sure, but exactly what "union" are you referring to? Where the pipe connects to the pump?

The main pump is an 8000 gph, and the other is a 5150 gph. Maybe the angle makes them look smaller?

 

[msr0459]

how big is your reservoir?

12 matrix blocks, allegedly rated at 31.5 gallons each, so around 378 gallons total. I was also going to create additional sides on the basin to perhaps fill over top of blocks, if needed.

 

[msr0459]

THE NUT JUST TO THE LEFT OF YOUR BLUE X IS A NUT THAT IS HOW YOU TAKE IT APPART , YOU DO NOT GLUE THAT THERE SHOULD BE THREAD AND A RUBBER RING IN THERE

I went back and figured out that the outer small grey pipe was just stuck, meaning, yes, it works as you said it should. So at least that should work for servicing the pumps if/when needed.

 

[msr0459]

good grief, yes odds are you just made your union unusable. that just cost you 30 bucks for an other. Those Pumps look really small like under 2000gph that won't be a very dramatic water fall . if you control all the water have distinct flat falls it may be enough.

I take it I shouldn't use silicone on threaded pvc, should I use Teflon tape, or nothing at all?

 

[GBBUDD]

IF THERE IS A GASKJET OR ORING IN THERE THEN NOTHING GOES ON THE THREADS . DONT OVER TIGHTEN