Pond in the foothills

[waynefrcan]

A guy here used that aerator, all his fish died. He had a decent sized pond.

Hi Addy, point me to his topic so I can see what else he did wrong. An AP-100 has massive aeration will not kill fish when used properly and it's in a large pond.

 

[waynefrcan]

Mitch; I'd ask Meyer re the depth, but my research came up with NOT putting the aerator at the bottom but mid-height or near the top. Here's the link to further pond research in which fish farmers are trying to do what you want to do; keep their fish alive. The link is to a forum thread.


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50723&page=1

I think, without knowing your own Alberta research, that the reason they're having success is because the lake/pond is deeper. You need 5' depths before any stratification starts. If the data you're looking at is for those and deeper depths, it would explain why it's working; they're mixing the different strata and keeping the deeper from being oxygen deficient. Most of our ponds are not that deep and there is no stratification, so no need to mix. Take a look at the link I posted and see if there's any info pertinent to your situation.

From what I understand; keeping a hole open lets the toxic gasses escape. These toxic gases build from the further decay of organic matter at the bottom of your pond. This decay process ALSO uses up oxygen as well. The bubbles you're going to put INTO the pond do nothing re aeration--they only provide current to mix and turbulence at the top. THAT'S where the ONLY aeration is going to occur. There's also data to show that keeping the ice clear of snow helps the algae below to continue living/growing/putting out oxygen. If your pond was completely covered the whole winter with snow (according to data, 5" or more) then the algae wasn't getting enough light.

Putting the aerator at the bottom is only going to make the bottom water colder as it mixes upper and lower temp levels. And since all you are really doing with an aerator is providing turbulence at the top, no need to mix, but it can keep the ice from forming, which is all it's really going to do.

Anyway, that's how I understand it. An aerator, no matter where you put it, is not adding oxygen except at the surface. If you have a small hole and any ice/slush at all, the turbulence is lessened and so is the aeration. Again, I think Meyer can confirm or correct me in this understanding.

Michael

I don't agree with a few points made here. One of which is that this disturbed water at the top just sits at the top, no it gets recirculated and gives the whole pond volume O2.

 

[waynefrcan]

I've read through that thread and others and they only seem to address O2 and water temperature.
One question I have about these winter aeration setups is if the bottom aeration was only set up during the winter?
If so, then I would think that perhaps the change of bottom water circulation stirred up some sediment that contained H2S and that's what caused the fish kills. Maybe these bottom aeration systems would work better if they operated year round.

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I think for our climate everything needs to be done perfectly or you will have fish loss. Very fine line between life and death when water temps are 2-5 degrees C. This is why with koi I'm doing inside overwinter.

Mitch from my experience and of others that overwinter here these steps work. Massive aeration with diffusers on the bottom or near bottom this aerates the whole pond volume and keeps a hole open until its really cold. Even frozen over is ok as gas will penetrate pores in the ice as at that spot the ice is thinner then rest of pond. Keep the airbreathers in for extra help with gas exchange, but put a fine mesh wire around the ball or add mesh nylon such as addy recommended inside ball to protect inlets. I put a heater at the bottom with the diffuser a few ft away and 1 ft higher so the very bottom stays slightly warmer. The fish will gather around the heater.

 

[waynefrcan]

And that article about the bottom staying warmer only works in deeper ponds, not the 2-4 ft backyard ponds that ice solid for 5 months which most of us North people have. I tested it and at 4' the temp was just above freezing same as rest of pond, that's why I put a heater in. I believe Mitch I remember you doing temp tests and your water stayed warmer at bottom 5' depth?

 

[MitchM]

Thanks wayne.
There was only about a 1 degree Celsius difference between the top and bottom of my pond. The slightest circulation would even the two.

 

[addy1]

Hi Addy, point me to his topic so I can see what else he did wrong. An AP-100 has massive aeration will not kill fish when used properly and it's in a large pond.

It was a neighbor/sort of friend. Moved and gone now, never posted. He used the ap100 in the shallow end of his pond, 2 feet deep or so. Deep end 6 feet deep. The shallow end stayed open, the deep end ice covered. When the ice started to melt nothing but dead fish, every single one.
Clean pond, good water. His pond was in the range of 13000 gallons. Now filled in.

 

[sissy]

A lot of farm ponds I see here have windmill driven ones and not for winter but for the heat of summer .The ones I see here seem to be this brand for some reason

 

[sissy]

lol neat wrong post again not sure why it is not working right but guy made a home made one from snow shovels

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I do not envy you true Northerners. Heat is so much simpler to deal with than ice-over. I fell that bottom-line your aim should be to devise a method that will work for you that will maintain some water/atmosphere interface (hole in the ice).
Although some oxygenation does occur at the surface of the air bubbles generated by sub-surface aeration, the amount is quite small when compared to what occurs at the interface as a result of water turbulence created by these same bubbles.

 

[waynefrcan]

It was a neighbor/sort of friend. Moved and gone now, never posted. He used the ap100 in the shallow end of his pond, 2 feet deep or so. Deep end 6 feet deep. The shallow end stayed open, the deep end ice covered. When the ice started to melt nothing but dead fish, every single one.
Clean pond, good water. His pond was in the range of 13000 gallons. Now filled in.

I think when water is 1.5 C over freezing the fish brains go numb lol. I have seen fish go to a shallow end instead of the deeper part that had more O2 and a heater.

 

[waynefrcan]

I do not envy you true Northerners. Heat is so much simpler to deal with than ice-over. I fell that bottom-line your aim should be to devise a method that will work for you that will maintain some water/atmosphere interface (hole in the ice).
Although some oxygenation does occur at the surface of the air bubbles generated by sub-surface aeration, the amount is quite small when compared to what occurs at the interface as a result of water turbulence created by these same bubbles.

I also had a floating heater that did keep some ice open but at -25 C or colder it froze over and the airbreather froze also.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I rarely have any trouble but then I designed my ponds to run all winter and having split levels is the best way to winter fish. The upper level ponds, the water level never drops below the ice, so the water movement eats the ice away very quick, unlike the bottom pond. The bottom pond is just for small fish as it gets lots of thick ice but the upper three connecting ponds rarely get ice over two inches thick, and then the upper ponds always have air holes open created by water friction right against the ice. It really works super well and I get away with one heater for all four ponds!
I see lots of people have big fancy pond with underwater drains and pipes all over, but those would freeze here, so all my hoses are under water in ponds. No need to drain with split level ponds as the waste gets all washed down to big Yellow flag. Although the Yellow Flag water iris is now officially declared a bad weed, but I'm keeping mine cause it falls under the "grandfather" clause cause I had it so long I get to keep it. He he he, just kidding... They can come try to remove it, good luck with that cause it's too darn big now!

 

[MitchM]

Today is ice free day from the past winter.

How it compares to past winters:
2013 April 5
2014 April 29
2015 March 31
2016 March 31

Today is ice free day this year.

2017 April 12

.

 

[waynefrcan]

I rarely have any trouble but then I designed my ponds to run all winter and having split levels is the best way to winter fish. The upper level ponds, the water level never drops below the ice, so the water movement eats the ice away very quick, unlike the bottom pond. The bottom pond is just for small fish as it gets lots of thick ice but the upper three connecting ponds rarely get ice over two inches thick, and then the upper ponds always have air holes open created by water friction right against the ice. It really works super well and I get away with one heater for all four ponds!
I see lots of people have big fancy pond with underwater drains and pipes all over, but those would freeze here, so all my hoses are under water in ponds. No need to drain with split level ponds as the waste gets all washed down to big Yellow flag. Although the Yellow Flag water iris is now officially declared a bad weed, but I'm keeping mine cause it falls under the "grandfather" clause cause I had it so long I get to keep it. He he he, just kidding... They can come try to remove it, good luck with that cause it's too darn big now!

You have a nice system that works for you! Me I can't seem to have any plants that thrive & grow or flower besides some variated iris. I use no salt.

 

[waynefrcan]

Today is ice free day this year.

2017 April 12

.

You really have the coldest pond I think of members at this forum.