pond estimate high?

[hockeyref88]

I'm not to keen on the whole bottom drain with a liner. I think you could just be asking for problems down the road. Can you just bite the bullet go congrete or fiberglass?? Its a little more but your not cutting a liner. I may be alone in thinking this way but anytime you cut a liner especially on the bottom it opens the possibilities for future issues.............Just asking...Sorry??

Rick

 

[DrDave]

You have to be careful to make a clean, round hole with no knicks to start a tear. It also has to be smaller than the part that goes through it so you get a good seal. Also, many also make a gasket out of the same material and place it on both sides before screwing the assembly together.

Make sure your drain goes downhill unless you are plumbing to pump that can be primed like a swimming pool pump.

 

[nibor]

I'm still doing the research but I think the set-up would have the drain and skimmer flow to the pump and then through the UV filter and back through the waterfall. Thanks for the tip about the liner. I talked with two pond specialists - one said a bottom drain was not necessary - and the other insisted it was. I'm probably not going to be able to resist getting another koi or two, and plan to keep it under 6. So do you think I don't really need a bottom drain ? That would save my guy a lot of time and me $$. Though I guess what I like about that arrangement is clearing all the gunk off the bottom. Seems like it would save time and make the water better.
Thanks also for suggesting pondliner.com . They seem to have an enormous amount of products and information to offer. I sent them an email with my general wishlist and asked for their recommendations.

 

[DrDave]

I don't have a bottom drain, never have. However, if I were using a swimming pool pump that has a strainer basket, I would consider it. So far over 40 years without a skimmer, bottom drain or UV. I don't think I will spend money or energy to do any of these any time soon.

 

[nibor]

Dr. Dave - your post does tend to make me tip in the direction of simplicity and saving $$.
One last question - I've been to different gallon capacity calculating sites and get different answers. Several sites use the L x W x D x 7.48 = gallons.
For my 18 x 12 x 3 in that formula I get 4847.04. But another site that did not explain the formula that it was using gave me 3888 gallons. What do you use to determine capacity ?

 

[DrDave]

L x W x D x 7.48 = gallons is correct. The variable is the configuration of your pond. For example, mine is shaped like Thor's Hammer. So I have a really challenging pond to calculate. To make it worse, very few ponds have verticle sides and flat bottoms, so you have to consider the curves into the equation.

The exact number is not important, if you are within 15% you are doing good with difficult shapes.

You might want to calculate sections of the pond then add the result. Some dimensions like width and length and the depth of the vertical side before the curve can be calculated easily and very accurate. Then you have to put your Geometry and Trigonomy learning to work.

When I drained mine last fall to rid it of the mosquito fish, I used containers and as I added water back, kept count on the gallons. I was surprised to learn I had less capacity than originally calculated.:banghead3:

Last, I am not against any bottom drains, UV filters or skimmers, they all help. If you manage your pond daily, as I do they are not required. If you are not as attentive and plan to visit and manage it only on occasion, then these will certainly make a huge difference.

The biggest bang for the buck (you can build it very easily) is a big biological filter with a 2" dump valve. It takes 30 seconds to clean mine once a week. I open the dump valve, direct the green sludge to my planter then close it when the water starts to clear. It takes a few minutes for the 55 gallon drum to fill up to the overflow and the water flows down the waterfall once again, crystal clear.

 

[nibor]

Thanks all for your assistance. The pond construction is near complete. Just a few final touches and am adding well water now. My fish have been in two 50 gallon holding tanks with aerators and seem OK. But are on a hunger strike. Today will be the fifth day for them in the containers. I'm concerned about introducing them to the new pond. Any suggestions ?
Also - so far the pond has cost about $4500. A considerable savings. Here is a link to a photo of the new construction. http://www.flickr.com/photos/19856045@N03/2539013656/

 

[hockeyref88]

Pond looks great!! Did you keep the filter running in the (2) 50 gal containers that your fish were in?? Another words did you keep the filter seeded with beneficial bacteria through the whole process?

 

[DrDave]

I would put a sacreficial fish in for a day and observe it. If anything is wrongooh: , you should know in 24 hours. Once you have confirmed the health of the volunteer :goldfish: and you know the water chemistry is good, I would slowly acclimate the fish to the water chemistry and temperature before releeasing them.:twocents:

 

[nibor]

hockeyref88 - Thanks for your reply.
No - I didn't. The lead from the filter back to the pond broke off. The holding tanks are full of the old pond water. Though I have been exchanging a few gallons with new water each day. I thought after the water level gets up to the skimmer and I get the waterfall filter flowing I would add the fish with the water from the holding tanks. Also have UltraClear to add - tho' I'm not sure how much to add. The water is a bit muddy from the construction. Though I was told the waterfall would create enough aeration - I thought I'd run my big aerator when the fish are added anyway. I just dropped in the lilies. I also have aeration plants left from the old pond. Though they long lost their weight to hold them under water - so they will likely quickly get taken into the skimmer. But perhaps they will still have some of the benefical bacteria amongst them. Though - they were sitting in a tank of water - which was pretty stinky. I've could maybe tape the old filter back together for a little while and put the sponges back in ... run the old pump through it for a day ? My old pond was half the size of this one and that pump and filter barely were doing the job.

 

[nibor]

DrDave - Thanks also. I thought about trying one fish out... tho' it causes me anguish. But it is the right thing to do.

 

[DrDave]

Better to lose one than all. Go buy a couple feeder goldfish and see how they do. I would get about 5 because they are generally not in good health anyway and some might die just from the move.

Stores starve these fish to keep their tanks clean.

 

[hockeyref88]

hockeyref88 - Thanks for your reply.
No - I didn't. The lead from the filter back to the pond broke off. The holding tanks are full of the old pond water. Though I have been exchanging a few gallons with new water each day. I thought after the water level gets up to the skimmer and I get the waterfall filter flowing I would add the fish with the water from the holding tanks. Also have UltraClear to add - tho' I'm not sure how much to add. The water is a bit muddy from the construction. Though I was told the waterfall would create enough aeration - I thought I'd run my big aerator when the fish are added anyway. I just dropped in the lilies. I also have aeration plants left from the old pond. Though they long lost their weight to hold them under water - so they will likely quickly get taken into the skimmer. But perhaps they will still have some of the benefical bacteria amongst them. Though - they were sitting in a tank of water - which was pretty stinky. I've could maybe tape the old filter back together for a little while and put the sponges back in ... run the old pump through it for a day ? My old pond was half the size of this one and that pump and filter barely were doing the job.

Well if your old filter was out of the loop the bacteria is probably gone anyways as it requires the fish waste to keep it going. sounds like you'll be cycling the pond again. If it was me, when I cycle anything with fish, I feed them every other day while in cycle. It does slow down the cycling process but the ammonia levels in the water won't get to high and kill the fish. When I cycled my new pond It took 11 weeks of feeding every other day. The plants will help and you can add some bacterial additive after a few days to help speed up the process. Good luck to you. again the pond looksd great.

Rick

 

[nibor]

Rick,

Thanks to your input - I looked for and found that the three sponges from the old filter were still wet and full of pond "green" and added them to the new waterfall filtration so the bacteria from them will be pushed into the new pond.

The pond is very muddy (clay mud) which has made me delay the introduction of the test fish. But I'll put one in tomorrow. Last year when I was completely in the dark about ponding - I put my first 3 fish in just after filling with well water. And they made it fine - perhaps I was just lucky. Anyway I'm trying to be optimistic. Does it mean things are good - if the frogs have arrived in multitudes ?!!

thanks again,

robin/nibor

 

[DrDave]

Forgive me for asking if you already posted this, but is your pond lined? The muddy water puzzles me.