peat and ponds

[taherrmann4]

Sissy take some pics for us visual folks.... :ugh:

 

[sissy]

I was going to but have to go out and get batteries darn remotes only use triple a 's and batteries in camera are stone dead

 

[pecan]

Interesting thread. Everything I have read up to now all the other pond forums says DON'T USE PEAT in ponds, but no one ever says why. Very interesting. With my naturally high ph in my pond, I think peat may be beneficial.

 

[koiguy1969]

most peat additives are in a combination of peat and barley... barley releases humic acids, which further break down to hydrogen peroxide. this essentially makes a time release peroxide. peats 'lowering ph' affect works in tandem in algae control due to most algeas preference of higher ph conditions. liquid barley extracts are far quicker in controlling algea than pellets or bales since theyve already began decomposing and have humic acids in them

 

[sissy]

why can't ponding be easier to figure out .I use the liquid barley and peat they sell at the farm store for farm ponds in the pond at the other house ,but I have not used it in my pond because it does not really say just how much to use in a smaller pond and since I have koi I did not want to take the chance of harming them .In the other pond a natural spring ran into it ,but we had to divert the stream from the pond ,because of the horses walking trhough the stream up from the pond .There are 6 houses up stream and they all have horses also .We only have goldfish in that pond and it seems to work fine ,but it is also a lot larger .I think the old owners had put in the liner and diverted the stream to keep it clear ,but the house was empty for 3 years at least before I bought it .Everyone out there has around 8 acres up to 12 acres and all of them have horses .

 

[Waterbug]

Ponding can be easy when you employ the best filter available...human reason. If we allow ourselves to believe concepts based on how good a story sounds life can be very complex. If we rely on data it's much simpler.

For example, peat or barley producing hydrogen peroxide to kill algae is a great story. If you believe it you go down a very complex path of chasing the perfect application. If you look at the data of how much hydrogen peroxide is produced you'll see pounds of it will only produce a few drops worth of hydrogen peroxide in perfect conditions over days and weeks. Pouring a teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide into a pond once an hour would be thousands of times more hydrogen peroxide and have no effect on algae. The choice of what to believe on a gut feel and what to research is up to each ponder. And so the choice of how complex to make life is also each ponder's choice. I've met many people who much prefer complexity and drama to make their lives more interesting.

 

[sissy]

everything out there about ponds says it is from years of collecting data so nothing to me is really reliable as what you try and if it works then you have found what is good for your pond and you .They say this works and that works and thats because they have something for sale .I have seen so called pro pond builders around here that keep me scratching my head .Some people in the fancy houses down here that have ponds rely on these guys to sell them everything under the roof to solve this problem or that problem and those guys are laughing all the way to the bank .The had a house tour last year that included gardens and was a benefit and I saw some really nice built ponds that were clean and sparkly ,but then you look at there garden shed and what do you see but shelves and shelves of pond stuff ,all kinds of chemicals .Gallons ,quarts of stuff .The fish were all babies so made me think they were new fish because the others went to chemical heaven .Even the garden supplies made to make the plants lush and big and full of flowers made me cringe .

 

[Waterbug]

Saying something is backed by data and publishing data is two different things. The bottom line is trying to separate the complete crap and things that might be worth checking out further. Like the hydrogen peroxide thing...people love to repeat the myth but ask them how much hydrogen peroxide is produced by barley or peat, or under what conditions, or what level of hydrogen peroxide is required to kill algae and you will get complete silence. They have absolutely no idea, they just like to repeat scientific sounding junk. There's been exactly one study done on the subject and even under lab conditions the results were far from conclusive. And you're right, that barley sellers transfer the lab conditions to pond conditions is criminal. They only get away with the con because so few people are victimized and for such a small amount of money.

But of course we have no one to blame but ourselves. We continue to do business with retailers pushing many products they know are cons. People in pond forums are more likely to perpetuate a con than question it. So it goes.

 

[j.w]

Must agree w/ you Waterbug and would have clicked the like button but won't let me again! I'm sticking to the natural stuff like partial water changes w/ my well water and netting out the gunk and using the filter floss now and then. I do have some barley hay and oyster shells in there giving them a try at keeping the ph stable and the algae thing tho. With the fish I have in their now (appx. 24 or so goldies I prolly don't even need a filter but I do put some filter media in my waterfall tank and clean it out when it gets pretty dirty but it's no fancy set up. Just helps to be able to see the fish more clearly. Have quite a few plants, lilies, parrots feather, creeping primrose, water hawthorne etc. Fish seem to be doing well.

 

[sissy]

the thing is like you said lab conditions are so different than pond conditions and even weather can cause problems with a pond so you have to try and use your own experience with a product .I can't say everything will work for everybody and don't try too .I know what works for me and my pond and can only comment on what works for me .I can say it works for me but can't say if it will work for you .I only try to at least give people some ideas and try to keep them away from all the nasty things they sell out there .Like I tried lava rock and it works for me and does not work for all .It does take extra work but is it worth it for me yes ,others maybe no .It comes down to try and see what works for you .Just like me well water is not 100% and it takes a filter to clean it but I can't filter rain that goes in my pond or what run off will go into my pond .You can't really say how much peroxide because everyone has different amounts of water in there pond .I have yet to figure how much to put in my own pond to see how much is safe .So I only use it to rinse the stuff that goes in my pond .I rinse the quilt batting and the lava rock and the spray the waterfall rocks I don't pour a bottle in my pond and never will .Why would I when I am not sure .When I rinse every thing and let it dry it then goes back in my pond .My water is clear and no UV and surely no dead fish .There is a risk you take with every pond and they take work and if you really think a pond is not work ,then you must have to work a little harder on it .But pleasure you get is worth the work .Just like raising children is a lot of work and seems to never end even when they are adults .

 

[adavisus]

The 'No peat' thang might have something to do with it likely to float about and make a mess, discolour the water being the obvious downsides.

For adjusting ph, if the peat is kept in the bag with just a few holes made to allow for water to seep the acidity into the pond it would be fairly easy to use peat to adjust ph levels in a gentle way on a small ornamental pond

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/

 

[sissy]

I see in farm ponds around here they use peat and barley in liquid form .They swear by it and pour it in by the gallons it is not expensive if you buy it at the farm store .I guess it is just the older farmers and there ponds that use it .I never it notice it until I read the flyer and then looked around and saw it in a gallon bottle and a 2 gallon bottle .I use peat on my yard and in my gardens ,but then again I use manure and sure am not going to use that in my pond .But the farmers around here swear by it .I wonder what it would do for soil conditions .Will it make things grow better ?

 

[adavisus]

Manure would add nitrogen and ammonia to the soil, which can push the growth of foliage of plants which are considered heavy feeders of feriliser. It's not unusual for plants to deplete fertility when they have been in the same ground for some years. Where ground is very sandy or clay any source of fertiliser is going to help though you would have to be careful not to overdo it to the pooint where the ground is polluted by excess coarse materials which can scorch and burn roots.

Ponds are all too easy to pollute, without the mass of soil to soak up fertiliser, it can dissolve to be too harsh on roots. Moderating fertiliser rates by about 1/20 is a 'usual' dose for aquatic environments when they need some sort of a perk to feed plants.

On a heavily planted pond it's usual for all fertility to be depleted within a few weeks by pond plants which are very quick to absorb fertility and grow so a little often feeding can simulate the effect of natural growth rates like a pond where there is a steady ebb of fertile conditions travelling through a pond

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/

 

[j.w]

So more food, more poop, more healthy plants! Gives us a reason to give our little finned friends a bit more treats eh? Maybe that's why the Water Hyacinth didn't do so good...............not enough pooh and same for why the waterlilies didn't bloom so much last summer for me........hmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[sissy]

All I know my soil is clay and i have added some manure and also made manure tea and I have grass .I started here and ended here and ooops hit a peewee pic with him eating an apple