Pea Green to Clear in one Day, Amazing

[Shoestring Ponder]

WB thanks so much for the explanation of whether Bacteria can be seen. I kind of thought, other than a microscope, it might not be visable. When I hose off the batting, it is slimy and olive drab green. It hoses off easily, although there are areas that do not get clean...that area of the batting is blackish. I hang the hosed off batting in the sunshine and the odgreen areas are clean but the blackish areas stay dark in color. Those areas, the blackish ones, I thought were possibly right where the water entered the basket, catching any debris. If I hose off my filter medium, which consists of nylon scrubbies and those green pad scrubbies, all I see is the od green slimy stuff and an occasional leech type worm that crawls out of the scrubbies. I posted that on a separate thread. I appreciated your explanation and will check on the link you enclosed tomorrow.

:goldfish:

 

[Waterbug]

You're welcome.

 

[ne3000]

I installed a 55w UV on the pond today. Water is still green as of today. Will post progress. Not sure how long before I should see results.

 

[ne3000]

I installed a 55w UV on the pond today. Water is still green as of today. Will post progress. Not sure how long before I should see results.

 

[ne3000]

I installed a 55w UV on the pond today. Water is still green as of today. Will post progress. Not sure how long before I should see results.

 

[ne3000]

I installed a 55w UV on the pond today. Water is still green as of today. Will post progress. Not sure how long before I should see results.

 

[Coinr]

Waterbug, thanks for the reply about uv lights and algaecides.

You are right about the algaecides toxicity. I searched msds and then the active ingredients. My first thought was I'm glad I didn't get any on me. I guess I won't be using it again.

In regards to my uv lights I bought them new this year, I did pull them to make sure they were working and being that I've only been using them for a few months they shouldn't need new bulbs yet. I do have the new ones to put in next spring though. They are the all in one (pump and uv filter combined), they do have a valve to control the water flow and the pumps are properly sized for the pond.

So, I had assumed that with all in one pumps I wouldn't need to adjust the flow rate, but you suggest reducing the flow rate a bit each week until the water clears. So would a week MINIMUM to clear be normal? I had also thought that uv lights running 24/7 should prevent algae blooms. Not true?

By the way, great anologies. They really put things in perspective.

 

[ne3000]

I have been running my 55W UV on a 500GPH pump for 3 days and have noticed some small improvement in how far down I can see. It was 1" visibility before now maybe 8-10" down I can make out fish. I believe UV can take over a week, I measured nitrate and found it was still 0 ppm and phosphate looks like 5 ppm (max on test set). I added floculent product and filter floss to my skimmer to try and catch clumped dead algae.

It's taking longer than I would like to clear. I am running UV 7/24 as it does it's job day and night. I am fertilizing my plants to get them growing and pulling nutrients from the water.

Still waiting for it to clear....

 

[brandonsdad02]

The UV light only kills single cell algae which is what makes the pea green water. If you have been running your UV lights in your all in one and you are still having problems with green water, either the lights aren't working or something isn't right in your water. It took 9 days to clear my pond. I haven't had problems since with green water. I have had some string algae but I have used Tetra Algae control to take care of that. One dose and it was gone. Others have used it on here and have had the same results. My plants in my pond and bog are doing great and so are my fish.

 

[Waterbug]

Waterbug, thanks for the reply about uv lights and algaecides.

You're welcome.

They are the all in one (pump and uv filter combined),

If yours has sponges or pads inside that have to be cleaned I would remove those entirely. They only block water flow and mess up what the UV is trying to do and they don't really help clean the pond at all. It's the basic problem with all combo filters, one part messes up another part. If yours is just pump and UV, no problem.

You do want the pump up off the bottom for many reasons.

So, I had assumed that with all in one pumps I wouldn't need to adjust the flow rate, but you suggest reducing the flow rate a bit each week until the water clears.

Yes. The thicker the algae the less the UV can penetrate so some algae get thru without a lethal dose. Slower water means there's greater chance each algae cell gets a dose.

So would a week MINIMUM to clear be normal? I had also thought that uv lights running 24/7 should prevent algae blooms. Not true?

The Catch-22 is the UV has to kill algae faster than algae can reproduce. Normally the constricting growth element is nutrient level. Algae use ammonia, nitrate and other chemicals to reproduce. These are only needed to reproduce, not stay alive. Normally a green pond has zero ammonia and nitrate because the algae is consuming it as fast as it can be produced. If the UV takes more than a week it gives the algae an edge. As cells die they release more ammonia and nitrates which the remaining cells can use to reproduce and the UV just can't keep up.

A UV could clear a pond in 2, 3,4 weeks if the UV was barely keeping up. That's an edge condition, impossible to predict. So to me if a UV doesn't clear a pond in 7 days I would say adjustments are needed.

Also keep in mind that UV actually kill algae in a couple of hours when optimal, when a UV is said to be a sterilizer. It takes a few days for the cells the decompose enough for the water to start to appear clear. This is why most people are surprised how fast a pond clears, like they wake up one morning and boom the pond is clear. When all the cells are killed within a few hours the decomposition rate of each cell is basically the same and so they all "disappear" at about the same time. When a pond clears a bit but keeps a green hue the UV is keeping up.

 

[Waterbug]

I believe UV can take over a week, I measured nitrate and found it was still 0 ppm and phosphate looks like 5 ppm (max on test set).

It could take longer than a week, but if it does the algae have a better chance of winning. See my #40 post.

I added floculent product and filter floss to my skimmer to try and catch clumped dead algae.

That can greatly interfere with a UV. The clumps can block UV rays allowing algae to pass thru the UV unharmed and the clumps can also stick to the UV glass blocking rays. You might want to check the UV glass to see if it needs cleaning.

Using a flocculent effectively is more complex than sellers tell you.

I am fertilizing my plants to get them growing and pulling nutrients from the water.

Do you see any paradox in this? It is true that many higher plants in ponds require the addition of fertilizer to grow well...because they're not good at pulling nutrients out of the water. Algae on the other hand are excellent at pulling nutrients out, you'll find no plant better suited. A green pond almost always measures 0 ammonia and nitrates, but is still green. The fertilizer in the potted plants won't only be used by the higher plants but will of course end up in the water and be used by algae to reproduce. It is a myth that higher plants of any kind can remove enough nutrients to completely eliminate any kind of algae which is what is required for clear water. Lower nutrient levels can slow algae, but the water would still be green and those low levels would also slow or kill the higher plants.

 

[ne3000]

I read that UV kills algae but it still floats around so floculent helps clump dead algae and then physically remove it, there by reducing the rotting and cylce of ammonia. Made sense to me. I oversized the UV 55W and have about 400-500GPH flow rate so contact time is maximized sine rate is lower and UV wattage is oversized.

agree that my bloom is causing 0 nitrate (measured again today). I have had previous ponds where pond cleared on it's own with no UV and used water hycinth to outcompete algae with a bog filter.

My new pond get's full sun, no ease way to shade it, since it's next to the pool and fences on the other side.


I have been very patient but decided to try UV and see what kind of results I can get. Day 3 and improvement is small.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Waterbug]

I read that UV kills algae but it still floats around so floculent helps clump dead algae and then physically remove it, there by reducing the rotting and cylce of ammonia. Made sense to me. I oversized the UV 55W and have about 400-500GPH flow rate so contact time is maximized sine rate is lower and UV wattage is oversized.

Absolutely true. Trick is high agitation, like a bunch of air stones followed by very fine filtering like a sand filter or fine fabric under the correct (low flow) conditions and removal of the collected algae quickly before the flocculent breaks down. So if you're seeing a lot of green stuff, I mean like a gallon worth of green paint collected in your filter you know you flocculent removal system is working. The entire process from start to finish takes an hour or two.

They do this in waste treatment plants but I've never heard of it successfully being done in a pond. The filtering out part is the tricky part. Treatment plants add heavy particles that bind into the clumps making it easier to remove. In ponds most people just dump in the flocculent and think that's it. Of the people who add a fabric filter they get some algae, maybe 1-5% and think they got it all. When I've vacuumed a pond after an algae bloom you be amazed at the amount of dense greenish algae came out. A tremendous amount.

agree that my bloom is causing 0 nitrate (measured again today). I have had previous ponds where pond cleared on it's own with no UV and used water hycinth to outcompete algae with a bog filter.

If you measured nitrate in the clear water with the hyacinth I'd bet you'd see nitrates were well above 0. There's the paradox. Green water 0 nitrates. Clear water with hyacinths but nitrates well above 0. Very easy to measure, many people have, many studies done showing the same thing over and over. Yet the myth that higher plants starve algae persists. And what's the most common question posted after a pond clears..."how do I kill all this string algae". The string algae using the exact same nutrients that were suppose to be at such low levels that single algae couldn't grow. There is a difference between reducing algae growth which can be done with reducing light and/or nutrient and what is going on with clear water. Two completely different processes. If a person chooses to believe they can get clear water by reducing light and/or nutrients they'll be fighting algae with one hand tied behind their back.

My new pond get's full sun, no ease way to shade it, since it's next to the pool and fences on the other side.

Less light can slow algae reproduction. Killing all algae to the point of a pond clearing would require total blackout for several week. Light is not normally the limiting factor in algae growth. Another way to look at it, when you have an algae bloom you can't see very deep into the water right? Maybe a couple of inches max. Well that also blocks light. If you placed a light meter under water you'd you'd get total shade type readings. 99% of the time algae in an bloom is in total shade, whether or not the pond is shaded. They need very little light. Shade is plenty of light for a pond to go green and stay green.

On algae farms they do go to great lengths to increase sunlight because they max out nutrients. In their case light is the limiting factor.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have never found the need to add flocculent to clear the water after an algae bloom. It has been well documented that UV light destroys the cell wall of the single celled suspended algae causing them to stick together forming large clumps that are easier to filter out by mechanical means. A sand filter would work, as well as a whole host of other types of filters, including simple disposible quilt batting. (waterbug, I don't know where you come up with that 1-5%, but even without a flocculent I know I can get a lot more than that with simple quilt batting)
The use of a flocculent can certainly help in the filteration proccess, but it also works in another way which is similar to the way a flocculent is used in wine making, and that is to attach to the the super fine suspended particles and cause them to settle and sink to the bottom, where in wine making you can the rack the wine by siphoning off the clear stuff and leave the sediment behind, or in the pond you can vacuum up the sediment, or simply be happy your water is now clear and leave the seddiment on the bottom of the pond.