Ebay!! I got mine from Ebayand they are great. They are a bit expensive but once in a while they gave out 20% discount but you have to keep an eye for that
Ornamental Goldfish? (And a fresh rap yo)
- Thread starter ZmanArt007
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ZmanArt007
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Ok, I might have to wait on the watonais until I have my own place because I don't really live at home for most of the year. "Hey mom and dad, I bought some expensive fish. Don't kill them while I am away." That might not go over too well hahaEbay!! I got mine from Ebayand they are great. They are a bit expensive but once in a while they gave out 20% discount but you have to keep an eye for that
Thank you for the advice though!
LOL
I think the whole breeding of many of these "fancy" goldfish is the big experiment. For crying out loud, some of them can hardly swim their features are so mis-shape and distorted. Huge bulging eyes, massive heads, and long flowing fins that create so much drag them seem to hinder their movement more then they help propel them.
I've kept a few of them in my pond, most developed swim bladder problems and eventually went to fishy heaven. I think it was more a genetic problem than one of predators or not getting enough to eat, because they tripled in size in one year, and my one black moor even survived a few of our cold winters when a few of the regular comets didn't make it.
This thread reminds me of some of the debates about keeping turtles in the same pond as fish, so many people saying it can't be done. "the turtles will eat all the fish" they cried, or "the turtles will eat all the plants" was the other disaster they warned about. Many people claimed the turtles won't survive the winters unless you have mud on the bottom of the pond for them to overwinter in. I've been keeping turtles in with my fish for many years now and I'm still waiting for all these horrible calamities to befall me. No mud, but the turtles over winter fine. The turtles have never touched my plants that I have ever noticed, and I have yet to see the turtles ever even try to bite one of my fish adult fish. In truth though, I have seen my turtles chasing some of the tiny fry that hang around close to the shoreline, but I see this as a service since every year I end up with more new fish, and need some sort of population control as they are starting to get out of hand. Perhaps I need more turtles? In any case, it's a highly nutritional, protein rich snack for the turtles and that much less food I have to supply.
I've conducted a few experiments that didn't work out too well as far as harmony in the pond. I've scooped fry from local ponds and wetland areas, and released them in my pond to see what they grew up to be. The few that survived, and didn't get eaten by the turtles, generally turned out to be sunfish or perch. Both are way better and eating all the fry then the veracious turtles, but when they run out of fry they start picking on the smallest goldfish. Nipping at their fins and generally making life pretty uncomfortable for the small fish. But hey, this sort of stuff goes on in natural ponds everywhere, day after day, so I don't know if it can rightfully be called an experiment.
I think the whole breeding of many of these "fancy" goldfish is the big experiment. For crying out loud, some of them can hardly swim their features are so mis-shape and distorted. Huge bulging eyes, massive heads, and long flowing fins that create so much drag them seem to hinder their movement more then they help propel them.
I've kept a few of them in my pond, most developed swim bladder problems and eventually went to fishy heaven. I think it was more a genetic problem than one of predators or not getting enough to eat, because they tripled in size in one year, and my one black moor even survived a few of our cold winters when a few of the regular comets didn't make it.
This thread reminds me of some of the debates about keeping turtles in the same pond as fish, so many people saying it can't be done. "the turtles will eat all the fish" they cried, or "the turtles will eat all the plants" was the other disaster they warned about. Many people claimed the turtles won't survive the winters unless you have mud on the bottom of the pond for them to overwinter in. I've been keeping turtles in with my fish for many years now and I'm still waiting for all these horrible calamities to befall me. No mud, but the turtles over winter fine. The turtles have never touched my plants that I have ever noticed, and I have yet to see the turtles ever even try to bite one of my fish adult fish. In truth though, I have seen my turtles chasing some of the tiny fry that hang around close to the shoreline, but I see this as a service since every year I end up with more new fish, and need some sort of population control as they are starting to get out of hand. Perhaps I need more turtles? In any case, it's a highly nutritional, protein rich snack for the turtles and that much less food I have to supply.
I've conducted a few experiments that didn't work out too well as far as harmony in the pond. I've scooped fry from local ponds and wetland areas, and released them in my pond to see what they grew up to be. The few that survived, and didn't get eaten by the turtles, generally turned out to be sunfish or perch. Both are way better and eating all the fry then the veracious turtles, but when they run out of fry they start picking on the smallest goldfish. Nipping at their fins and generally making life pretty uncomfortable for the small fish. But hey, this sort of stuff goes on in natural ponds everywhere, day after day, so I don't know if it can rightfully be called an experiment.
Hey mucky, how do your turtles winter over in your pond? I had a small slider last summer and after that horrid winter was over I found it dead at the bottom of the pond. I know your winters are as harsh as ours was last winter. What do you do? ps: I also found 7 dead bull frogs too
Actually we had a fairly mild winter this year. It seems when the winters are harsh out East we get milder winters out West here.Hey mucky, how do your turtles winter over in your pond? I had a small slider last summer and after that horrid winter was over I found it dead at the bottom of the pond. I know your winters are as harsh as ours was last winter. What do you do? ps: I also found 7 dead bull frogs too
As far as the turtles go, I know a lot of people try to over winter those store bought red eared sliders in climates they are not suited to. My turtles are native to my area so they stand a better chance. However, you have to keep in mind that even in the wild lots of turtles never make it to adulthood. If they go into the winter and they aren't in the peak of health the odds are against them. Also they need fairly oxygenated water in the winter since they are absorbing oxygen through their skin in the winter, which isn't nearly effective as gills, they benefit from aerators in the pond in the winter.
We here in the UK are having problems with sliders and snapping turtles bought during the ninja turtle craze when they were all the rave for kids to own not knowing the size they can gro to.
After this died down it was left to the parents to get rid of them many of them were then released into the wild to get rid of them rather than find them a sutible home,
Thanx to these lazy parents they have managed to thrive and have gone on to decimate ponds and the wild fish there in but the amazing thing is they are managing to survive our cold winters .
If they are breeding or not is not as yet known but if global warming is a fact and the UK gets warmer then this is a distinct possiblity , trouble is our fish and amphibious dont see them as a threat because they have never come across them before now
Dave
That's how my ponding hobby got started.We here in the UK are having problems with sliders and snapping turtles bought during the ninja turtle craze when they were all the rave for kids to own not knowing the size they can gro to.
After this died down it was left to the parents to get rid of them many of them were then released into the wild to get rid of them rather than find them a sutible home,
Thanx to these lazy parents they have managed to thrive and have gone on to decimate ponds and the wild fish there in but the amazing thing is they are managing to survive our cold winters .
If they are breeding or not is not as yet known but if global warming is a fact and the UK gets warmer then this is a distinct possiblity , trouble is our fish and amphibious dont see them as a threat because they have never come across them before now
Dave
When I was a kid I had several of those store bought turtles that I kept in those stupid plastic turtle island things. Even then I knew it was a terrible habitat for a turtle, and in the summer time I use build my own habitats making make shift ponds and streams in the dirt using the running water from the hose for my flow. I really wanted to build something permanent for my turtles, but of course it was all just temporary usually only lasting that day that I built it, I just didn't have the resources, knowledge or the support to build anything permanent. I'm fairly certain my adult pond building desires are simply my subconscious mind just trying to fulfill my childhood dreams.
I went from this:
To this:
Well I fed my pond fish this morning and noticed my fancies were getting food just as fast as my commons. Now that I think about it, my fancies are much bigger and stronger than my commons. I have an oranda that weights over 270 grams and a fantail that weighs 220 grams. None of my commons are even close to that.
Mmathis
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Winters can be bad for box turtles, as well, especially in the southern states. Boxies dig into the soil or into leaf piles to over-winter. If the winter tends toward mild, they might not dig in very deep, and in some cases might even come out of brumation for a short time before they dig back in. Then, if there is a sudden and/or prolonged cold snap, they aren't adequately protected against the elements.
And like @Mucky_Waters said, they [all turtles] need to go into the winter in good health. In mid to late fall I have to start treating their diet a lot like we do with our pond fish and cut back on the amt. of protein in their diet -- though they
And like @Mucky_Waters said, they [all turtles] need to go into the winter in good health. In mid to late fall I have to start treating their diet a lot like we do with our pond fish and cut back on the amt. of protein in their diet -- though they
I love your pond, Mucky!That's how my ponding hobby got started.
When I was a kid I had several of those store bought turtles that I kept in those stupid plastic turtle island things. Even then I knew it was a terrible habitat for a turtle, and in the summer time I use build my own habitats making make shift ponds and streams in the dirt using the running water from the hose for my flow. I really wanted to build something permanent for my turtles, but of course it was all just temporary usually only lasting that day that I built it, I just didn't have the resources, knowledge or the support to build anything permanent. I'm fairly certain my adult pond building desires are simply my subconscious mind just trying to fulfill my childhood dreams.
I went from this:
To this:
The Slider was out of a pond near here so he was native. Aeration may have been the problem for me. Only had a small pump going to disturb to surface and even then it froze over at times. So looks like aeration pump here we come.
Fishylove you could also use a water pump. Worked great for me last 2 winters. Never froze over and the water is warmer than the surrounding air you would be introducing to the pond.
How do you have it circulating, just moving water around? Or should I keep the bog flowing?
The pump shoots up and creates turbulance at the surface. I wouldnt run the bog unless you are sure the water won't freeze and overflow elsewhere. I like to keep my water in the pond so it stays warmer.
At least your commons arent beset by the problems facies are all known to suffer from and for that reason they should be kept indoors...
I cant see a fancy being just as fast as a common either my friend unless your dropping the food right on top of them. I'm sorry but by their very makeup they have been handicapped by us humans just like kennel club pedigree dogs many of which are beset by problems such as epilepsy due to brain pans the wrong size in spaniels in the case of the bulldog being unable to give birth without medical intervention , gastric problems blindness and warts in all three types of Alsatians with hip displaceure, crippling back problems in the dachhund Arthritis in the legs of beadles need I go on ???
You cannot get round the fact that weve taken the goldfish and trashed what its supposed to be breeding in everything mutation wise which has left many a mess .
Internally all the organs are a mess they arent in the right place them being in a squashed up and not as mother nature intended them to be which gives them swimbladder issues etc
Weve also given them a different body shape meaning they arent at all streamlined, thus create drag in the water, tails that are in the wrong positions or set at the wrong angle.
We then take the common goldfish which is apart from the colour that is, is as mother nature intended and as such is stream lined thus able to create hardly any drag at all making them a faster fish when swimming through the water.
It's a little like taking the nose cone of the concorde and sticking it on the front of a biplane then saying its faster than the concorde ........ it would never happen !!!.....
It is said that if you stock a pond with fancies then leave them to breed for several generations or more between themselves then that before long you would find that they have reverted back to normal goldfish because mother nature would correct this........
Dave
ZmanArt007
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Here is my observation of the fancies so far. It's true that they lack the raw speed that my goldfish and koi possess, but they are no less determined to get food. They spend the day foraging through algae and I'm pretty sure it's my fancies that have taken out almost all of my koi fry. When I feed, they come up for food, and the only reason that they don't get as much to eat is because like my young koi their mouths are slightly too small to eat an entire pond stick at one go. I'm going to buy some smaller goldfish granules the next time I make it all the way to the city. I get that the swim bladder and health concerns are still present but I think that the fancies not getting enough food is the least of my worries. I also don't think they are at much risk of being attacked or picked on by my koi or comets either. My Oranda hangs out with the big fish all the time. My moor, Ryukin, and shubunkin hang out together with some of last year's koi fry. All of them are quickly assimilating into the pond hierarchy. I think that my main concern with how these fish will do is health issues and predators.
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