Ornamental Goldfish? (And a fresh rap yo)

[Dave 54]

Wow that must be a very slow fish to get stuck in ice! Why won't this respected member speak for themself? Has this respected member ever kept fancy goldfish in a pond? Has ANY person in this thread who said it shouldn't be done kept them in a pond? Have the aquarium shop owners ever kept them in a pond? Do they even have a pond??? The fact that someone owns a shop does not make them an expert. I can walk into many different types of businesses and be far more knowledgeable about their products than the people working there.

Here in the UK diesilplower they have to take QATA exams when it comes to owning or working in a fish shop so they do have the expertiese as does Dr Johnson and many other authors on the subject of ornamentals .
There are differing ornamentals some stronger some weaker . you yourself wouldnt put a bubble eye into a pond for instance nor a loinhead or other ornamentals that do not fair well outdoors yes ?
They also speak against putting in a normal type goldfish in with onamentals for the reasons of fin nipping bullying etc in tanks yes , so why then does this suddenly make it alright to mix the two in the pond?
The fin nipping bullying and health issues still stand or do we say we know better than the experts who have all taken exams to get to where they are in the fish world Val and I are what you call senior aquarists here in the UK , it still doesnt make us the expert because they are.
So logic would normally say well to us and others if the expert says no you shouldnt mix the two fish which says that the two shouldnt be mixed its to do with compatability .
In the tropical fish world there are fish not compatable to others in that they would say attack and kill other species or even eat them , fin nip etc .
Have you ever come across a black moor with no eyes ?...I have it lost them because I didnt listen to an expert when I first started out , its eyes were plucked out by a normal goldfish (not compatable)......
So if we abide by what the exprts say tropical fish wise why doesnt that apply here in the pond because that is what they are saying but only a few of us seem to be listening ?
As to the ornamental stuck in the ice I've a feeling it hit with swimbladder issues and got caught


Dave

 

[ZmanArt007]

Wow, I wasn't trying to start such a debate I hope I didn't make an enemy out of this private messenger, or out of you Dave. I understand the risks and I realize that some of the fish probably won't make it. Call what I'm doing an experiment. So far almost everyone who has actually kept them say that they do fine. I'm going to try several varieties of fancy goldfish and see how they do. I'm sorry if people feel like I am "sentencing these fish to death" or something. I'm not trying to offend anyone I just want to try fancies in my pond, as many have done, many of which have succeeded in keeping them.

 

[dieselplower]

I will tell you, I had two common goldfish die over this past winter, and no fancy goldfish. Maybe commons shouldnt be kept outside either.... hahahaha...

 

[Fishylove]

Now even though I have kept Fancytails and do have a ryunkin nymph (in my large pond 3000 gallons). I most certainly would NOT keep a bubble eye, which would be in danger of popping their eyes. Or an Oranda, which has a spine that is more bent than a ryunkin and has a down swimming form. I have also been on both sides of the "pond" and lost 5 Fancytails to predators. So the warnings here are real and will happen given the right circumstance. As I said before, the ryunkin I have is a single tail nymph and as such swims much faster than a split tail ryunkin would. He was also 4 inches long before he was put in with the bigger fish. @zman I did buy him a a pet store, I suppose he was so small when we got him I didn't notice the single tail but he looks like a normal ryunkin if one didn't know what they were looking for. I can try and catch him to get a close up if you would like?

 

[ZmanArt007]

Now even though I have kept Fancytails and do have a ryunkin nymph (in my large pond 3000 gallons). I most certainly would NOT keep a bubble eye, which would be in danger of popping their eyes. Or an Oranda, which has a spine that is more bent than a ryunkin and has a down swimming form. I have also been on both sides of the "pond" and lost 5 Fancytails to predators. So the warnings here are real and will happen given the right circumstance. As I said before, the ryunkin I have is a single tail nymph and as such swims much faster than a split tail ryunkin would. He was also 4 inches long before he was put in with the bigger fish. @zman I did buy him a a pet store, I suppose he was so small when we got him I didn't notice the single tail but he looks like a normal ryunkin if one didn't know what they were looking for. I can try and catch him to get a close up if you would like?

I know that a bubble eye would definitely be a bad idea. If nymphs were a guaranteed thing to see in a pet store I would definitely buy one but I didn't see any when I was there. I suppose the fish being bigger would be a good idea before putting them in the pond... If this first batch doesn't work out maybe I can keep a couple fancies in an aquarium while I'm at college. My little pond away from home. That would give them the chance to get a little bigger before introducing them. I would love to see a picture of your ryunkin especially if he is that big, but don't trouble yourself with it if it is too hard for you to catch him. Thank you very much for the advice Fishylove!

 

[Fishylove]

No problem I think you got a good idea; taking them to college with you, bigger they get the better chance they'll have. I've been wanting to catch him anyway to get a good picture of him and the two blue shubunkins.

 

[Fishylove]

Here we go zman fortunately he was "happy" to be caught today lol

As you can see above... His tail do not split so he uses it as one

His tail is fused at the top and the bottom and his body is not as scrunched up as it normally should
Which makes him a little more streamline.

As you can see unless you knew that his tail is supposed to be split, you wouldn't notice the difference.

He every bit of 6" now and is doing fine. Swims right up into my hand
Zman, might I suggest that you take your time and look for some that do not have such a
"scrunched" body (even if they have a split tail), which would give them the ability to swim better and faster than their counter parts

Also I thought you might like to see one of my babies from this year
This is the first time my fish have spawned as I usually keep the males and females separated in different ponds.

 

[dieselplower]

There is a fancy goldfish that is simply called a fantail. It is less scrunched than a ryukin. Maybe that is what you have. Here is mine.

 

[dieselplower]

By the way, you would be better off introducing a fish to a pond when it is young. It will better be able to get used to temperature swings if it starts at a young age than if it becomes accustomed to a constant temperature for the first part if it's life.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Beautiful fish dieselplower

Didn't read this whole thread but just wanted to mention that I added a fantail to my pond this spring/summer. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Fishylove]

Diesel that's very possible, wouldn't be the first time someone sold me something saying it was one thing, and turned out to be something else At any rate I like him

 

[Mmathis]

Wow, I wasn't trying to start such a debate I hope I didn't make an enemy out of this private messenger, or out of you Dave. I understand the risks and I realize that some of the fish probably won't make it. Call what I'm doing an experiment. So far almost everyone who has actually kept them say that they do fine. I'm going to try several varieties of fancy goldfish and see how they do. I'm sorry if people feel like I am "sentencing these fish to death" or something. I'm not trying to offend anyone I just want to try fancies in my pond, as many have done, many of which have succeeded in keeping them.

See, this is what bothers me the most -- the comment that, "I realize that some of the fish probably won't make it. Call what I'm doing an experiment."

Since when are our pets an experiment!

And BTW, now that I think about it, I do have an example of a non-compat. fish: my little Ryukin. When I got her I didn't realize about the swim bladder problems they can have, but thought she was pretty and I wanted her in my pond. Well, poor little girl has gotten her self in more trouble in the pond. Because she's so uncoordinated by her body type, there are numerous times I've had to fish her out of the skimmer -- she can't fight the current and also can't flip herself out. Also, have had to catch her several times to treat her swim bladder problem, twice having to bring her inside for a couple of days. Needless to say, she's the only fish I have with a name -- her name is "Spaz." Other than that, she does OK in the pond, and keeps up with the crowd, but I worry that one day she's going to flip into the skimmer and I won't be around right away to get her out. Had I realized about her "issues" ahead of time, I wouldn't have gotten her just because of the potential risks.

 

[Mmathis]

Here we go zman fortunately he was "happy" to be caught today lol
View attachment 72659
As you can see above... His tail do not split so he uses it as one
View attachment 72658
His tail is fused at the top and the bottom and his body is not as scrunched up as it normally should
Which makes him a little more streamline.
View attachment 72664
As you can see unless you knew that his tail is supposed to be split, you wouldn't notice the difference.
View attachment 72667
He every bit of 6" now and is doing fine. Swims right up into my hand
Zman, might I suggest that you take your time and look for some that do not have such a
"scrunched" body (even if they have a split tail), which would give them the ability to swim better and faster than their counter parts
View attachment 72669
Also I thought you might like to see one of my babies from this year
This is the first time my fish have spawned as I usually keep the males and females separated in different ponds.
View attachment 72670

Interesting about that tail! I'll have to check my babies out a little more closely -- they all looked to be single-tailed, but I suspect "Mom" is a Ryukin, so......

 

[dieselplower]

See, this is what bothers me the most -- the comment that, "I realize that some of the fish probably won't make it. Call what I'm doing an experiment."

Since when are our pets an experiment!

And BTW, now that I think about it, I do have an example of a non-compat. fish: my little Ryukin. When I got her I didn't realize about the swim bladder problems they can have, but thought she was pretty and I wanted her in my pond. Well, poor little girl has gotten her self in more trouble in the pond. Because she's so uncoordinated by her body type, there are numerous times I've had to fish her out of the skimmer -- she can't fight the current and also can't flip herself out. Also, have had to catch her several times to treat her swim bladder problem, twice having to bring her inside for a couple of days. Needless to say, she's the only fish I have with a name -- her name is "Spaz." Other than that, she does OK in the pond, and keeps up with the crowd, but I worry that one day she's going to flip into the skimmer and I won't be around right away to get her out. Had I realized about her "issues" ahead of time, I wouldn't have gotten her just because of the potential risks.

Plenty of posts about people Koi being taken by Heron etc. Maybe they should be inside too
And your little fish Spaz is obviously not well. I would not advocate leaving that fish outside either.

 

[Mmathis]

Plenty of posts about people Koi being taken by Heron etc. Maybe they should be inside too
And your little fish Spaz is obviously not well. I would not advocate leaving that fish outside either.

And your point is.....?