Newbie needs tips! :)

[Hummingbird2]

Unplugged pump last night, but I have no idea how to disconnect pump from rest of plumbing . . .

 

[EricV]

How is the pump connected to the plumbing that exits from the pump? You say there is an intake. I assume you mean a skimmer box. Usually the pump will sit in that box but be easily disconnected from the plumbing. It would be helpful if you could supply photos of the pond as a whole, the waterfall area, and especially the pump and plumbing that is visible.

So you turned off the flow from the pump. What's happening with the water level in the pond?

It would also help us to know where you are located. What has the weather been like there recently? How hot, windy, etc? A pond *can* lose an inch in a day if it's warm, windy, dry, and has lots of plants.

 

[addy1]

I dropped around 3 inches in the last few 90 degrees, low humidity days. The water movement and the surface area allow a lot of water to evaporate away.

 

[Hummingbird2]

Yeah there's a skimmer (a box in a hole in the ground that the water flows into - I'm assuming the pump is down under the water in the box somewhere). Inside the box is a ~3" pipe that comes up out of the water and out the back of the box and is buried just under the grass. Haven't dug around to see which direction it goes.

I'm in central Ohio - it was 50's and 60's and cloudy all last week. The past couple days it's been highs in the upper 70's. I have no idea if any water was lost over the last 24 hours because my depth marker brick fell over *and* it rained. I set up my marker again and I'll keep an eye on the level. Supposed to be up to like 80 and more rain tomorrow. There are hardly any plants in it.

The pond is kidney shaped - something like 15' long, 9-10' wide depending on the spot, and 1-2' deep. According to online pond calculators that makes it something like 1600 gal with around 200 sq ft surface area. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it seems like it's been losing around an inch a day ever since I started paying attention to it again 6 weeks ago. I'll keep an eye on my depth marker over the next week or so and let you know how it goes (and post some pics).

Thanks, all!

 

[EricV]

An inch a day in cool conditions sounds like too much to me to be just evaporation. My pond is more or less the same surface area as yours, but oval, not kidney. I'm probably losing 50 gallons a day with Chicago's weather. That's about running a garden hose full blast at 5 minutes. Definitely not an inch. I too, had a pond that was "leaking" an inch a day earlier this season. The "leak" was that I had a low spot. I'd fill up the pond past its maximum stable depth and the water would leak out! Thats why we need to see a slow, stable drop in your levels to confirm a real leak in the liner. A "leak" that stops means it's either dropped past where the leak is or the "leak" is a low spot or other limitation of how much water the pond can hold.

I've attached a top-down photo of my skimmer box to orient you on what we're talking about there. I suspect yours is similar. On the left is the intake from the pond. Water flows through there, into a basket to catch leaves, then through brushes or a pad to catch smaller stuff. On into the right chamber. The pump sits where that white pipe goes vertical. Your pump is at the bottom of the pipe that comes out of the water. On mine you can see some hose clamps attaching the white pipe to the black pipe that leaves the box. Those clamps are used to easily disconnect the pump and remove it for cleaning. I would hope you have a similar way to remove the pump! That black pipe then goes to the base of the waterfall.

The other thing you don't see is that on the left there is another hole coming out of the back of the skimmer. That's an overflow hole and is connected to another pipe. That's supposed to set the maximum level of water in the pond. All of this may have nothing to do with your water loss, but it's worth knowing.

 

[EricV]

I'll tell you, I did have a genuine leak about a year ago that developed during the winter. What happened is that I did not get a great seal where the liner attaches to the skimmer and then ice must have expanded and contracted enough to force a channel through. I'd fill the pond and two days later it would be down 3" and then stabilize.

So it can happen.

 

[Mmathis]

Sometimes I will look at my pond and just swear that it’s losing water! But what I’ve learned is that......(palm to forehead).....where I’m looking at the water line that is showing on my rocks and assuming that the level is lowering....what is actually happening is that I’m seeing the water line where it sort of splashes or “waves” as the wind blows and or movement caused by the air stones and just general water movement. This does make it look like a water level drop.

 

[EricV]

Sometimes I will look at my pond and just swear that it’s losing water! But what I’ve learned is that......(palm to forehead).....where I’m looking at the water line that is showing on my rocks and assuming that the level is lowering....what is actually happening is that I’m seeing the water line where it sort of splashes or “waves” as the wind blows and or movement caused by the air stones and just general water movement. This does make it look like a water level drop.

I do that too. What I do to be more reliable is pick a rock that is just barely underwater. If I ever see it dry, I know I’m down. I also use a trickle flow top-up, so I can look at my overflow and make sure it’s dripping.

 

[Hummingbird2]

Hi, all! Ok attached is a pic of the pond, a pic looking down into the skimmer, and a pic of the pond-side of the edge of the skimmer where it looks like the liner is pulling away from the skimmer.

The level *definitely* went down at LEAST an inch over night! There was almost no rain in the last 24 hours. I looked at my brick marker I made AND I noted a rock that was just under the water yesterday and it's half exposed today - so that's at least an inch! It's been between like 50 and 78 degrees, somewhat windy.

I did already know about the over-flow pipe opening in the skimmer. I just went out and took out the L-shaped piece of pipe that connects the pump to the pipe that leads around to the waterfall. So we'll see if the water loss continues with the pump unconnected.

Your tubing and my tubing both are put together using those metal hose clamps with the screws - I feel like those screws loosen up over time! Isn't there something better we could put on there? Mega zip ties or something? Is there some sort of sealant that should be put inside the rim of all the pipe pieces before they are put together and clamped? It didn't seem like there was any in the L-shaped piece I took off.

Ok - for now, the water level observations continue!

Skimmer from above

• Hummingbird2
• May 4, 2018

Skimmer - is the liner detaching?

• Hummingbird2
• May 4, 2018

My pond - not looking too great at the moment!

• Hummingbird2
• May 4, 2018

 

[EricV]

Looks pretty good to me. Yes, our pump and skimmer setups are nearly identical. Don't worry about the hose clamps on the rubber. As long as you keep them tight and the hard bits of the pipe inserted far into the rubber coupler, you'll be fine.

Just looking at your head-on skimmer photo and your overall photo, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you are just experiencing low spots in in your liner. Keep watching the water level and see if it continues to drop an inch a day. Watch for wet pine needles or mulch near the edges and if you see something or suspect a low spot, just pick up the rock that's sitting on top of the liner. You'll immediately see if the water is contained in the pond or slowly flowing over the liner into the surrounding soil.

Your overflow from the skimmer doesn't appear to be connected to anything, so there is a good chance your previous owners were not using that to set the maximum water level.

 

[Hummingbird2]

Hi, all - so it looks like the water hasn't gone down any in a couple days! BUT the thing is, the level is right at the very bottom of the skimmer intake! The level needs to be at least an inch higher for the pump to run without making a gurgling/gulping sound! So do I go around the liner above the water line and look for leaks/folds/tears? Can I go around the edge and put more dirt or rocks under the liner to raise the rim up another couple inches or something?

 

[j.w]

@Hummingbird2 yep you can if it's just a lowering of your liner in some place letting water leak out. That will raise it up but if it's a hole now way Jose'!

 

[EricV]

Top it up and look for a wet spot. That could be a hole near the top of the liner or a low spot. You can also take a wooden stake and try to push it into the ground about 6" from the pond and see if you can find mud. Start near the skimmer intake. That'll help you find the source of the problem. If its low spots, definitely adding soil, rock, or brick under that spot will solve it.

If it's a hole in the liner (unlikely, I'd bet) a new liner is probably in order.

 

[Angel]

Hi, all - so it looks like the water hasn't gone down any in a couple days! BUT the thing is, the level is right at the very bottom of the skimmer intake! The level needs to be at least an inch higher for the pump to run without making a gurgling/gulping sound! So do I go around the liner above the water line and look for leaks/folds/tears? Can I go around the edge and put more dirt or rocks under the liner to raise the rim up another couple inches or something?

i would re raise the water level to where it should be and shut off the skimmer pump for a bit. This will help you isolate where the leak is. If water doesn't drop with the skimmer not working then a plumbing issue. If it does drop then you have a pond liner issue.

When looking for a leak in a pond you have to eliminate eliminates aka skimmer, waterfall, streams, etc the best you can to narrow down where it is.

you can also try doing food dye or skim milk around edges to see there the new color goes to help narrow down.

 

[EricV]

i would re raise the water level to where it should be and shut off the skimmer pump for a bit. This will help you isolate where the leak is. If water doesn't drop with the skimmer not working then a plumbing issue. If it does drop then you have a pond liner issue.

I think that's already been done. If I understand the situation correctly, the circulation has been turned off and the pond rapidly drops to the level its at now and then stops. This should be verified, of course.