need your help once again - this time re: goldfish

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My fav are a cross of Comet or Sarassas with Shubunkin. I like the longer fins, but not as long as a Comet, and more color (reds) than a Bristol Shubunkin. Can be found as feeder fish too.

When choosing the number of fish make sure you tell them. They might have other ideas in a few years.

I wouldn't worry too much about the max length. In 160 gal they shouldn't grow very fast. Could take 20 years to get to 10".
 

koidaddy

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Did you see the fish I adopted from her Waterbug? 5 koi less then 2 years old in a 160 gallons. Smallest one is 12". No the comets/shubbys want grow as big but Chris has some magic going for her. She made a believer of me, I used to think the same thing about how much they grow but heres proof. Also her local fish store said she could fit more of them in there so I wouldnt listen to to much they have to say..
 

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Addy, I thought the rule was 1" of fish per 10 or 20 gallons? or 5" or 10" per 100 gallons. 1" per gallon sounds like way too much bio-load. I have shubunkins and comets. The comets generally are faster swimmers. I would recommend both.
 
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Koidaddy, they're nice healthy looking fish. That first one, Kohaku I guess, really great white. Wow, makes me want to keep Koi. I can't really tell how big they are...but for 2 year old Koi they don't seem large. How big are they?

You can certainly grow Goldfish and Koi large in a small pond but it takes a lot of water changes and food. Most people don't do that and I've never heard of it done for Goldfish. In most Water Gardens, even large ones, the Goldfish don't grow very fast. But lately I've been thinking of setting my next pond up like a Koi pond but to grow large Shubunkin mixes. I think it would be fun and I think large Goldfish would be cool. We use a lot of water year round for the garden here in Phoenix so the needed water changes wouldn't be a waste I'm thinking. I think I'd have to cross Shubunkin with Common to get really good size. First time I've gotten excited about building a pond here.
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
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Addy, I thought the rule was 1" of fish per 10 or 20 gallons? or 5" or 10" per 100 gallons. 1" per gallon sounds like way too much bio-load. I have shubunkins and comets. The comets generally are faster swimmers. I would recommend both.

LOL cometkeith, I just googled it and that is what the majority of the sites said. And I could have done a big typo...........I try real hard to watch my typing lol a missing 0 makes a big difference. My pond, no clue on how many inch fish per gallon we have, don't really care as long as the water stays nice. Don't really see a way I could count the suckers unless we netted them all.

HOW MANY FISH?
To assess how many fish your pond will support, estimate its surface area and allow 60sq cm of surface for every 1 cm of fish (equivalent to 24 sq. inches per inch of fish). Since fish grow and breed, it is best to start off with around one-third of the theoretical maximum number. For example, a 1.8 x 1.2m (6ft x 4ft) pond will, in theory, support 360cm (144ins) of fish, equivalent to 36 individuals averaging 10cm (4ins)long, but, in practice, you should have only about 12.


The classic formula for fish stocking levels is one inch of fish per square foot of pond water. Ie, if you had a 10 foot square pond, you could have 100 inches of fish - about eight twelve inch fish (96 inches). Another classic formula is one inch of fish per ten gallons of pond water. By this formula, you could have the same eight twelve inch fishes in a 1000 gallon pond, or one twelve inch fish in a 120 gallon pond.

Well, those are easy-to-use formulas, but they don't address how much more waste fish create as they get larger. According to the old formulas, one twelve inch fish is the same as four three-inch fish. Not so. The twelve inch fish will weigh about 475 grams, wheras the four three-inch fish will weigh 29 grams all together. That's a big difference. Its even more significant when you take into account that each fish will generate about a third of its weight in waste every day. So your pond and your filter will have to accommodate 158 grams a day of fish waste from the twelve-incher, but less than ten grams of waste from the four three-inch fish.

So what does it mean? Well, it means that your small to medium sized pond can handle a bunch of small fish MUCH easier than it can handle even a few large fish. So with fish, smaller is better if you don't want to overload your pond. A pond three feet square - 1296 square inches - should not have more than 60 inches of goldfish; or about twenty goldfish. And that's with a seriously robust filter. Ten goldfish is much more likely to be a success.

Many koi experts use a rule of 1/2" of koi per square foot of surface area. This works better than the old formula, and also takes into account the fact that koi can get much larger than goldfish. Koi also tend to be messier than goldfish, and are quite a bit pickier about water quality. So under this rule, your 10x10 foot pond could take no more than four twelve inch koi. Remember, too, that koi and goldfish grow. It would be better to get four six-inch koi and let them grow than have to give one away in a year's time.
 

koiguy1969

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TO ME...the number and size of fish your pond will support is up to you, and what your willing to do to support them...i blow away all those so called maximum limits. 6- 7 months a year in the basement pond. i have, do, and will keep well over 200 inches of fish in 800 gal of water..with stable healthy water parameters.by spring it will be atleast close to 300 inches. i have yet to lose a fish to anything but a heron, a jumper and one that got sucked onto the end of my pump hose. if your willing to put forth the effort. of coarse i utilize mechanical, biological, and chemical filtration.
 
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Addy I think that was a good article. It is pretty much the mainstream theory. Regarding surface area, every time I expand my pond I focus more on overall size and don't worry if the shelves are not deep. Koiguy, You are right about there being all types of exceptions, but what would you tell a beginner then? Any amount of fish in a pond is ok? I have kept to these parameters and it has worked out ok for me. I think until you get very experienced it's good to have a rule of thumb to rely on. I think most newbies over stock, over feed, and don't properly cycle their pond before adding fish. All these problems lead to poor results. Koiguy If you see something wrong with a fish or your water you know how to act. A beginner would be lost. It's better to start conservatively in my opinion.
 

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