Moving bed, sand and gravel or skippy?

[crsublette]

I love the bio-diversity that S&Gs give and wet/dry filters react especially quick to changing ammonia/nitrite levels. If you do not want the additional water noise a wet/dry filter can create, then do a MB filter.

Or... Additional fines partical filtration and bio-diversity from two S&Gs is very awesome as well.

So, it really depends on the money you want to spend and how you weight the other disadvantages and your personal goals.

 

[Troutredds]

I'm intrigued with the idea of succulent "living wall" to conceal our above-ground centrifugal pump. You could also buy a large plastic imitation rock valve box cover. I got one from Home Depot online that closely resembles the grey basalt boulders of our water feature. It's basically a large hollow boulder that functions as a lid for our remotely installed skimmer box.

 

[JohnHuff]

Tiger1, why stop at one filter? Build a bunch or make a combo.

1) I have a shower filter that has K2 in it instead of lava rocks or other static filter. That's like a moving bed plus the benefits of gassing off.

2) Or how about a radial flow filter with moving media in it. With a 55g drum, you can do lots.

Handsome Charles mentions cost but I've used cut up straws instead of K2 and I think they work pretty good. I've found the best place to buy K2 is on e-bay.

 

[koiguy1969]

tiger... you need not run an aerator pump to get a good boil in a moving bed filter. a venturi will more than suffice.... example in this video.

 

[Tiger1]

What type of container did you use for your bog filter? I have been looking for one but then I ended up buying it from home depot. yours look exacly like what I was looking for. And how did you get the water back to the pond with the bog?

My bog container will have the input at the side, almost at the bottom, and output at the other side, almost at the top, then the hose connect to the waterfall. I'm hoping that is good enough for the water to flow out and into the waterfall by itself (it'll be just a bit higher than the waterfall)

Yeah, ThePondDigger does some good videos. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching them.

1) The outflow is in the upper right. The container comes w a hole there. I don't know why. But I just made that hole big enough to handle outflow. 1 1/2" using bulkhead. Inside pvc has elbow pointed up so I have a high water line. I want to put small fish in there. Or you can turn elbow sideways for lower water. Outside is just pvc gravity fed back to pond.

It looks like the outflow goes up a pvc elbow then gravity flowing out to the pond. Is this correct??

If so, it looks like a good water bridge, but water bridges tend to fail over time due to small air bubble accumulation at the top of the bridge insdie the elbow. If my assumption about the pvc elbow is correct, have you had the water bridge fail you yet??

Correction on my design of the bog:.......the bridge is actually in inflow pumped in over the container and down to the manifold. The upward elbow that drains the water comes out of the container and elbows straight down to ground level then straight back to pond. The barrel inside the pond runs on its own pump. Then I have a 2000 gph that is teed in half. One half is what I'm debating on what filter to make. The other half is what feeds the bog and other barrel. Had to split that half because it was too much water for the bog alone. So on the bridge, to the left(bog)of tee, pvc is non restricted. But to the right(barrel) I made a "bushing" out of a wishbone salad dressing cap with about 1/2" hole drilled in it. It fits nice and snug inside the 1 1/4 pipe to restrict some of the water to give more to the bog. Hope that all makes sense. One pump divided in half. Half unused right now and half divided unevenly between bog and barrel. Found this neat pipe in the sink drain section that fit my 1 1/2 hose and in the tee is a divider that let the pump split the water in half without working on one side and affecting the pressure on the other.

 

[Tiger1]

tiger... you need not run an aerator pump to get a good boil in a moving bed filter. a venturi will more than suffice.... example in this video.

Yes, that is my plan. I've tested the flow over the barrel with a tee. Bushing on top of tee with snug tube going down to get the the Venturi. It makes a nice boil. Not to strong and not too low. I will be able to hide the 55 right behind the waterfall. My only concern is making a mechanical filter before MB. Plan on a sealed 5 gal bucket with pvc running all the way down through the lid(uniseal) so water can come up through media and back out another hole in lid. Would this reduce my water pressure? It would be an inclosed water tight system.

 

[Nepen]

Laguna pt795. I hope this link works, but if not, look up ThePondDigger on YouTube. He's doing a series of step by step videos on how to build this. I'm using the same container. It was a little work getting it, though. Laguna/Hagen does not sell to the public. I had to call them to find the nearest dealer to me to have them order one. Don't bother with big chains like Petsmart, they won't do it. I found a small exotic reptile store who was kind enough to order one for little profit. I paid only $125. My input and output are actually on the same side. The input pipe is hidden in the pic, but it is in the bottom center connected to a manifold that spreads water evenly across bottom to move up through gravel. The outflow is in the upper right. The container comes w a hole there. I don't know why. But I just made that hole big enough to handle outflow. 1 1/2" using bulkhead. Inside pvc has elbow pointed up so I have a high water line. I want to put small fish in there. Or you can turn elbow sideways for lower water. Outside is just pvc gravity fed back to pond. The container is about 100 gal. Check out ThePondDigger. He makes a nice wood frame and side patio pond in great detail. I just did the basics. Be prepared to rinse a lot of pea gravel. 20+. That was the hardest part.

That sounds great! Actually after looking at the video, the container is way too big for me right now, I have a small space But I can use the tips about the elbow to control the water level in the container I have (or it might not be neccessary at all for my small container) and other stuff, will be good for future reference though. I bought the river gravel from Home Depot, it's not as small as pea gravel but I think that'll do. I'll add a sand layer and a activated carbon layer (this is a may be) too, thinking about having a larger rocks at the bottom.. But I'm not sure how to clean the container or if that is neccessary if I have plants in there.

Nepen, many of us with bogs have it as an extension of our ponds, with the same liner, flowing back into the pond.
I'll be watching this thread to see how you end up connecting the bog to your pond, Tiger. I liked the water barrel idea that overflows back into the pond, with what looks like a mini lily in there. Very clever!

Thanks CountryEscape, I wish I could do it differently now with the bog and pond like that but I have a small space and a raised pond so I have to have seperate bog so the container bog is my only way to go for this pond

 

[shakaho]

LOL!! I am a filter junkie!! My pond is crystal clear, but I just love researching filters. I have the skippy.......in several places. And I love building them. Even have a tiny one on my 30gal barrel pond. Oh wait, I just turned that into a tiny gravel bog, just because. The sand and moving both sound fun. I leaning toward the moving bed, because I think it's better from what I gather, and after rinsing all that pea gravel for the bog, I kinda don't want to loll at rocks right now.

My motto is: Every water feature has to function as a filter.

Yes, I was pretty sure you were one too. So where is your trickle tower/shower? Please tell me how you got your Laguna tub. I wanted one so bad to make a container bog filter, but couldn't find a source. Laguna is no help, listing all the big box stores (and no one else) as "dealers." You can get very detailed instructions on making a sand and gravel, which is a great mechanical filter, and have that empty into a moving bed filter, which gives superb biofiltration and can, in turn, empty into a trickle filter to return the water to the pond. A filter junkie's dream.

 

[Tiger1]

That sounds great! Actually after looking at the video, the container is way too big for me right now, I have a small space But I can use the tips about the elbow to control the water level in the container I have (or it might not be neccessary at all for my small container) and other stuff, will be good for future reference though. I bought the river gravel from Home Depot, it's not as small as pea gravel but I think that'll do. I'll add a sand layer and a activated carbon layer (this is a may be) too, thinking about having a larger rocks at the bottom.. But I'm not sure how to clean the container or if that is neccessary if I have plants in there.

Thanks CountryEscape, I wish I could do it differently now with the bog and pond like that but I have a small space and a raised pond so I have to have seperate bog so the container bog is my only way to go for this pond

Laguna does have a smaller size, which I did see on ebay or amazon. As far as clean out, I thought that the plants used all the waste and you just had to thin out the plants. One comment mentioned air blowout just like a sand and gravel filter, but cant see that happening w plants in there. I will ask in the comments on youtube. There is another guy on Youtube that made a few videos on gravel bogs. CrazyFishFarmer He doesn't mention blow out either. Look him up too. I got a lot of ideas from him too. He's the one that showed that you can keep the water level higher. He used different layers of rocks in his.

 

[Tiger1]

Yes, I was pretty sure you were one too. So where is your trickle tower/shower? Please tell me how you got your Laguna tub. I wanted one so bad to make a container bog filter, but couldn't find a source. Laguna is no help, listing all the big box stores (and no one else) as "dealers." You can get very detailed instructions on making a sand and gravel, which is a great mechanical filter, and have that empty into a moving bed filter, which gives superb biofiltration and can, in turn, empty into a trickle filter to return the water to the pond. A filter junkie's dream.

I am a junkie, but an amateur junkie. Now I will have to read up on trickle tower/shower filter and see how I can fit one in. I got the tub by emailing Laguna. This was their reply......"unfortunately we do not sell that item. please contact Laguna customer service directly at Parent Company Rolf C Hagen: http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaengeu/contact/contactus.cfm or phone 800-724-2436. I just called and they told me that they don't sell to the public so she looked up dealers in my area to ask. She told me not to bother w the big chains as they will not order for you. She gave me the name of an exotic reptile store. I stopped in and ask if they would order for me. And he did!! I don't know how far you are from Tampa, but I'm sure they will find a small dealer near you that wouldn't mind doing it. I like your filter combo, but space and outlets are becoming limited right now. Whatever I do now, has to fit behind my waterfall. But as a true junkie, I will read up on it just to see if there is a way....

 

[Catfishnut]

Tiger,

My "pond" setup is unique compared to most everyone else here on the forum, except maybe Mmathis (AKA: Turtle Mommy - and the nickname explains her enterprise well enough).
I happen to be a "Catfish fisherman" which doesn't require a Phd to extrapolate that info from my forum name, hee!

My setup is designed to keep "baitfish" alive year 'round for going catfishing. I would be keeping small bullhead catfish, bluegills, sunfish, minnows and chubs, crayfish/crawdads, frogs and salamanders etc. for bait in two ~978 gallon (maximum capacity) polyethylene tanks. The tanks are 69" W x 117" L x 28" H.

Eventually, if I can be so lucky to do it, I would like to have some of these species reproduce in the tanks so that I don't have to go out into the wild and catch them. I guess that question will be answered a long time from now as I have to get many other tasks and construction chores accomplished first.

Keeping bait fish alive in such an environment is just as demanding as water garden ponds and Koi / goldfish ponds, but with different twists. Like Mmathis' turtles, my baitfish are generally pretty dirty creatures. They poop a lot and since they come from the local ponds and streams, they often carry many parasites, diseases and undesirable bacteria, etc. However, in the same rite, they have a distinct advantage over Koi and goldies.... They are used to living with all those troubles as well as doing so in the most extreme environmental conditions (low oxygen, high ammonia, high nitrites and nitrates, exteme temperature swings, floods and droughts and all sorts of natural enemies or predators).

Therefore, in the interest of keeping my baitfish thriving in a small, confined, unnatural environment, I have been researching all sorts of filter systems and aeration methods and what-not throughout the years. I started this long before computers, the internet and forums like this were available to me! I find it just as exhilarating to research this stuff and experiment with prototypes as I enjoy actually going out fishing! It is extremely rewarding as I learn so much and meet new people all along the way!

So, I wish you a lot of fun with your pond and the design of your filtration systems! Enjoy the heck out of it all!

Catfishnut

 

[crsublette]

tiger... you need not run an aerator pump to get a good boil in a moving bed filter. a venturi will more than suffice.... example in this video.

As Paul mentions, as long as the pump can handle the resistance, then a venturi would be fine. If the pump's head height is lacking, which most pond pumps do lack much head height, then the venturi's resistance will reduce the pump's flow rate quite significantly. This is the problem with venturi's.

Definitely worth a try !!

 

[crsublette]

1) Yes, that is my plan. I've tested the flow over the barrel with a tee. Bushing on top of tee with snug tube going down to get the the Venturi. It makes a nice boil. Not to strong and not too low. I will be able to hide the 55 right behind the waterfall. My only concern is making a mechanical filter before MB. 2) Plan on a sealed 5 gal bucket with pvc running all the way down through the lid(uniseal) so water can come up through media and back out another hole in lid. Would this reduce my water pressure? It would be an inclosed water tight system.

1) Yes, that is my plan. I've tested the flow over the barrel with a tee. Bushing on top of tee with snug tube going down to get the the Venturi. It makes a nice boil. Not to strong and not too low.

Very interesting.

Picture of the venturi ??


2) Plan on a sealed 5 gal bucket with pvc running all the way down through the lid(uniseal) so water can come up through media and back out another hole in lid. Would this reduce my water pressure? It would be an inclosed water tight system.

Any resistance will add to your system's total head height... It will depend on the media...

 

[crsublette]

Nevermind... Answered my own question...

At first, I thought Paul's MB filter's venturi was completely gravity flow driven, which it is not.

The 3rd tank with the sub, where it T's off to the bio-filter, is what is supplying water to the MB bio-filter's venturi. Although, there is also water entering from the Radial flow. So, he has a wierd loop going on here to make the venturi work.


Actually, it is quite impressive. Going to see if I can do that to my system so I can save my air pump as a backup air pump or something.


For anyone curious, Turbo Venturi (this one from Aquatic Eco-Systems online) is what he uses.

Keep in mind a venturi is simply not just a plane pipe-T with an air tube on top. There is actually a restrictor, inside venturi, that forces more air to be pulled in from the air tube.

 

[Catfishnut]

For anyone curious, Turbo Venturi (this one from Aquatic Eco-Systems online) is what he uses.

Thanks for that link Charles!

I was trying to determine where to get them. Thinking along the same lines as you, to eliminate the air pump for the purpose of the MB and use it elsewhere.

Catfishnut