installing a indoor wall switch for pond lights

[sissy]

I just bought one yesterday at lowes and it was a double gang box with cover included and was 12.98 . I got the one with the big cover that is deeper and it is all metal .I just installed it this morning .Box with gfci was 7.98

 

[waynefrcan]

That is cheap good work!

We finally have 2 Lowes in my side of the world. So much cheaper then H-depot?

 

[sissy]

It was called a special deal set up and had some freebies with it and coupons on it .I got the gfci for 7.98 and it was originally 9.98 .I guess a lot of the lowes are doing that to tempt customers in and they will buy more .One sale item is all it takes .

 

[waynefrcan]

I'm on my phone right now but in the morning I'll get a picture. I have each pump on a different circuit. I have 6 outlets per circuit. My pond is 75' from my house so I had to run electric to the pond. I also ran a water line to my pond. Ran that in 1/2" pvc pipe.

Circuit breakers will only handle 80% load before they trip. That's just how they are made. Your electrical buy wouldn't tell you to use 12-3 because they won't make as much money. 12-3 is 2 power wires, a neutral and a ground. You can get by in a pinch for short term using 12-2 for 2 circuits by using the neutral as a power, and ground as your neutral and your ground. The neutral and ground go to the same bar in your panel or they are 2 different bars but both bonded to panel. The latter option is not code and not recommend for long term use.

The H-depot guy does not recommend the 12/3 underground. This what he said:

"If you run a 12/3 it is connected to 2 breakers in the panel" If you ever get a leak or damage and the 2 hot wires touch, your whole system then jumps to 220. This will fry all pumps, bulbs, transformers, lights, GFI's and humans in contact with it" Running 2 seperate lines doubles the protection.

He also said that I can run 1 line to the outside plugs and a second line to the outdoor lights. This will save me half the work and expense. I already checked the current load on both. 3 outside house plugs on one breaker which I never use until winter. Outside light covers 2 inside lights and 3 outside lights, so load is light as well.

 

[brandonsdad02]

You have that slight risk with anything. The thing that he forgot is that with Gfi outlets, they trip at 5milliamps of voltage drop. To prove this point, our electrical instructor stood in a small kiddie pool of water and dropped a extension cord into the water that was plugged into a Gfi outlet. It tripped before the end of the cord was halfway underwater. With uf romex, its all encased in rubber. Each wire. It's even code.

 

[waynefrcan]

IF the 2 hot wires contact that's an increase in voltage??

I'll ask about the heavy dudy 12/3 you referring to.

Thanks for the info.

 

[brandonsdad02]

If the 2 hots touch, the breaker should trip with in seconds.

 

[waynefrcan]

Should, could or would? lol. It would trip both breakers? In seconds still could fry things? I didn't ask, but are you an electrician? Maybe my guy is not lol

 

[brandonsdad02]

I did 4 years of electrical school. I worked for a electrical contractor for 6 years working right along with a licensed journey man electrician. All I had to do was take my block test and I would be licensed, but the economy crashed so I got into welding. So back to the question.....in short yes I am, just don't have the certificate saying I am.

 

[waynefrcan]

Good it's you against the H-depot guy. Who will win? lol OR is it the American against the British all over again!

I know some plumbers that were tired of crawling through walls and knocking holes in concrete. They working at plumbing parts shops now or H-depot etc.

 

[addy1]

My electrician hubby says, the breaker would trip, the grounding conductor would trip it or the phase to phase wire would trip it. Running multiple phase wires is how almost everything residential and commercial is done. We used 12/3 to our pond still working fine.

 

[waynefrcan]

Thanks for that.

 

[waynefrcan]

Well a different H-depot guy is against 12/3 as well.

He said a 12/3 can be used for my project, but doesn't recommend it. Something about a rogue neutral and that 1 of the hot lines carries double the load.

I have decided to run two 12/2 lines.

Thks for all info.

 

[brandonsdad02]

He isn't very smart. The neutral and the ground are connected to the same spot in the panel. Some panels have separate places in the panel but that is for to put all of the neutrals on one and the ground on another or to keep your panel clean and not have wires running to one side or another to land the wires to a certain point. The bus bars as they are referred to a lot are bonded to the panel. Thus making it no different from one side to another. With all of your 220 volt items such as your stove of its electric, water heater, AC unit. They each have 2 hot wires, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. That is the standard way of wiring things. Go in and asking him for a range cord and asking him about his theory? 12-2 will work but it just takes longer and cost more for the wires. Please don't thing I'm yelling at you.

 

[waynefrcan]

Ok you win. Both H-depot guys got beat. And I believe you 100%.

However I'm sticking to the 2 lines.

I'm going from the breaker with 2 lines with a double switch box and out to the pond in hard PVC conduit. Double gang GFI at the pond.

Now I just need to find a outdoor faceplate for a GFI and reg plug and cover that's not over $30.00 as H-depot's are.