How deep should a container pond be?

[Joshaeus]

Hi everyone! I am still trying to work out what I want for a container pond/ponds next year. To help me sort out the answer to that question...how deep should a container pond be to allow a reasonable thermocline (IE the pond is several degrees cooler on the bottom) to exist throughout the day? If this helps, after seeing how warm it got this summer, I was going to position next year's container pond near a bush so that it gets some shade part of the day; I will also be painting the outside of the container a light blue color so that it does not absorb as much light as it would if I kept it black (most of the containers I am considering are black). Thanks

 

[Lisak1]

@Joshaeus no offense but I really feel you may be overthinking this whole thing. Creating a thermocline in a container pond? I don’t think that’s even something to worry about. The color of the container? Not all that big of a deal. Just jump in with both feet and learn as you go.

 

[Joshaeus]

@Joshaeus no offense but I really feel you may be overthinking this whole thing. Creating a thermocline in a container pond? I don’t think that’s even something to worry about. The color of the container? Not all that big of a deal. Just jump in with both feet and learn as you go.

OK...yeah, I do tend to overthink my hobbies I may still paint the outside of the container for cosmetic reasons. My 15 gallon rope handle tub container reached the high 80's yesterday when air temperatures hit the mid 90's, though admittedly the fish I am planning to keep in my container pond next year are all either tropicals or warm temperate species that have no problem with heat.

 

[Lisak1]

I think my patio pond is about 60 gallons, but I know they make them smaller. Obviously larger will be better.

 

[Mayank]

Hi everyone! I am still trying to work out what I want for a container pond/ponds next year. To help me sort out the answer to that question...how deep should a container pond be to allow a reasonable thermocline (IE the pond is several degrees cooler on the bottom) to exist throughout the day? If this helps, after seeing how warm it got this summer, I was going to position next year's container pond near a bush so that it gets some shade part of the day; I will also be painting the outside of the container a light blue color so that it does not absorb as much light as it would if I kept it black (most of the containers I am considering are black). Thanks

My container pond was (before I sliced the top half off, filled with rocks and now am using it simply as a reservoir for a water feature off my front porch - no plants or animals) 50 gallons or so. It is and was buried into the ground and not sitting above ground and that may have kept it cooler. I had a water lily that flowered well and wintered well right in that little pond and every year we had frogs live in it. It was only 18 inches deep. No fish though.

 

[Joshaeus]

I think my patio pond is about 60 gallons, but I know they make them smaller. Obviously larger will be better.

I don't think we will have room for something that 'large' on my back porch, but a 40 gallon is probably doable. My mom wants me to keep it on one of the gravel drainage areas so as to leave room for us to have chairs and a table next year (otherwise I would strongly consider something in the range of 100 gallons).

My container pond was (before I sliced the top half off, filled with rocks and now am using it simply as a reservoir for a water feature off my front porch - no plants or animals) 50 gallons or so. It is and was buried into the ground and not sitting above ground and that may have kept it cooler. I had a water lily that flowered well and wintered well right in that little pond and every year we had frogs live in it. It was only 18 inches deep. No fish though.

Sadly, we have a concrete back patio with gravel drainage to the side and our landlord does not want us digging in the dirt in our backyard, so above ground will have to do. On the plus side, we have outdoor electrical outlets on the back porch, so I can use a heater to reduce the nighttime temperature drops (though that does not help with keeping the water garden cool during the day).

 

[Mmathis]

No, thermoclines don’t start until you’re down about 20-30ft.

What you want to consider is the ratio of surface area. Shallow and wide is better than deep and narrow. Surface area is where gas exchange takes place, so you want that maximized. I once had a lovely aquarium, 20 or 30 gallons (long time ago), but it was hexagonal. Before long, I traded it in for a “long” rectangular tank. A hexagonal tank is like a tube — lots of water to contain things, but low ratio of surface area.

 

[Lisak1]

@Mmathis said exactly what I came back to say - deeper means you need to get wider which means bigger.

 

[Joshaeus]

@Mmathis said exactly what I came back to say - deeper means you need to get wider which means bigger.

Fortunately, the 40 gallon tuff stuff trough in question is very wide for its size - 40 by 28 inches. It is only 13 inches deep.

 

[AlyssaFish]

No, thermoclines don’t start until you’re down about 20-30ft.

Thanks! This thread had me wondering about this!

 

[AlyssaFish]

@Joshaeus The color of the container? Not all that big of a deal. Just jump in with both feet and learn as you go.

Hey, don't underestimate the importance of container color! I live in a really sunny, dry place and touching anything black or other dark colors that has been sitting outside in the sun is a fantastic way to get burned. I always worry that my fish will press their fins against any exposed black liner and get burned, or my plants will press up against the edge of the black planters and become damaged. But even if my plants and animals are all right, I get hurt all the time. Dx

 

[Lisak1]

I guess I don't understand why your fish could come in contact with exposed liner... but maybe I'm just dense! And yes - black will be hot in the sun, but I don't think it will transfer that much heat to the inside of the container, especially if it's somewhat thick walled. Also, my pond is wider at the top than the bottom, so the sides are angled and therefore mostly shaded.

 

[Stephen Noble]

My hat is off to you, Joshaeus. You do your homework and ask questions. I have a Tuffstuff container on my porch (about 40-gallons) and have a wooden sleeve around it to make it look nicer and help keep it cooler. The sleeve is made from Redwood slats. I installed screw levelers around the perimeter to keep it off of the concrete. It works great. good luck!

 

[Joshaeus]

My hat is off to you, Joshaeus. You do your homework and ask questions. I have a Tuffstuff container on my porch (about 40-gallons) and have a wooden sleeve around it to make it look nicer and help keep it cooler. The sleeve is made from Redwood slats. I installed screw levelers around the perimeter to keep it off of the concrete. It works great. good luck!

Thanks! Where did you get those slats, and how did you attach them to the trough? I was thinking of using either 4 by 4's (which would require waterproofing) or concrete blocks to elevate the water garden off the ground.

 

[AlyssaFish]

I guess I don't understand why your fish could come in contact with exposed liner... but maybe I'm just dense!

Not dense--just probably imagining a better constructed pond! XD

My pond is a box, with the liner stapled over wood planks at the top at a 90 degree angle. Rocks sit on top of the wood and cover it, but sides that go into the water are still exposed directly, especially when the water level drops. A fish could easily press its lips against the hot exposed liner while searching for food. I've also got planters up against the edge of the pond that a fish could worm its way onto ( I've seen my fish Gümer worm across the lowest shelf in the water fall, so I know he could do it, lil jerk) and get pressed up against exposed liner that way.