Goldfish dying in pond

[KB1ankenship]

Thanks addy1. I plan on doing 25% water changes all weekend until the ammonia shows as 0, or as close to 0 as I can get it this weekend. And hopefully, the addition of ammonia binder and a good bio filter will finish the job.

Since I have been spending so much time with my pond, a couple things I have not mentioned I started to notice, is I have about half a dozen little skinny black guppy type looking fish in my pond. I'm not sure how they got there, but I got them.

I noticed one of the smaller goldfish yesterday was swimming near the top not moving to much, just enough it seemed to keep upright, and about 3-4 of the little guppy fish were pecking at him. Also, when I did the water change yesterday, I moved a few rocks around, and under one of the rocks was a dead goldfish, with a hole in his belly, and kind of hollowed out.

Do I need to be worried about these littlle fish attacking the goldfish?

 

[JohnHuff]

Fish are omnivorous, which kinda means lapsed vegetarian. But enough about me. Ya, if you got to pet stores and see dead fish, you'll also see other fish nibbling at them. But I think they'll only do it to dead or dying fish. But are those fish or some kind of larvae or tadpole? Sometimes fry catch a ride on plants but I don't think you have any plants yet...

Trickle towers are DIY things more than anything else. You can go to the DIY section here and check out my mini-builds and just upsize one of them. :usa:

 

[Waterbug]

Doing large water changes can be a stresser, so that could now be adding to the deaths.

The active ingredient in AlgaeFix is toxic to fish at levels higher than directions. At levels followed careful, healthy fish in good water conditions survive. In your case I would assume it's also adding to the deaths.

 

[Waterbug]

You posted one time that KH & GH were through the roof and you wanted to soften the water. Is this still true?

 

[KB1ankenship]

Hello again. I havn't been on for a bit, as my dad went into the hospital for a while, and is now back at home. Even though he is at home, he is still having a tough time, so I have been going to help out as much as possible, which has not left me as much time to maintain my pond as I would like.

Now that my dad is slowly getting better, I am hoping to be able to get more time to get the pond were it needs to be. On Monday, I was able to go out and get the Ammo Lock, so I have been using that per the label. On Monday I also 25% water change, then added the Ammo Lock. After that, I tested the water and the ammonia was at 2.

The label said to add every 2 days until ammonia shows at 0, but it also says, initially, the ammonia will still show up on tests, but it should be safe ammonia it has converted. I added another dose of Ammo Lock yesterday, and did testing today. Today, the ammonia shows as 1, everything else other than GH and KH is normal.

Yes Waterbug, I do have really hard water, and when I test for GH and KH, it always shows either at the top of the chart, or just below the top of the chart. Any ideas on lowering the hardness are appreciated.

With the Algae fix, I am going by the label with how much I add, but it is not stopping the algae growth, only slowing it. On Monday when I did the water change, I also used the vacuum to get out as much debris from the rocks on the bottom, but the sides of the pond, and the larger rocks I have on the top ledge were all turning green. Before I was using the Algae fix, the rocks would be covered in green algae within 4 - 5 days. After I started using Algae fix, it now takes close to 3 weeks to have the larger rocks start to turn green.

During the water change, I pulled the green rocks out, hosed them off, and also took a rag to wipe the algae off the sides. Because it has not stopped the algae, I was thinking I may need to add more algae fix, but I will keep it the way it is since I want to stress the fish as little as possible.

I think it is getting better, but it still has a way to go. One thing though, Tuesday was the last day I lost a goldfish. I have not lost any fish yesterday, or today. I am down to about 20 or so goldfish, some small, some larger, plus my 5 koi and 1 sucker fish. Not sure if I have not lost any in a couple of days because of the Ammo Lock, or if so many goldfish died, the pond is "leveling" out, but since none have died in 2 days, I will keep doing what I'm doing.

Again, I want to thank everyone, especially Waterbug for all the help.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, those algae products will never stop algae from growing. purpose is only to knockback the algae and to slow its growth. it will never be stopped.

Cheapest way to soften hard water is by storing and using rain water. Next best is using de-ionized Reverse Osmosis. Next best is paying a truck or hauling water from the store.

 

[Waterbug]

The label said to add every 2 days until ammonia shows at 0, but it also says, initially, the ammonia will still show up on tests, but it should be safe ammonia it has converted. I added another dose of Ammo Lock yesterday, and did testing today. Today, the ammonia shows as 1, everything else other than GH and KH is normal.

Just to double check, they're wanting you to add Lock every couple of days to deal with ammonia being produced by fish. When the ammonia test is zero you know bacteria in the pond can handle future loads Ammonia already cut in half means you already have a good bacteria population.

Yes Waterbug, I do have really hard water, and when I test for GH and KH, it always shows either at the top of the chart, or just below the top of the chart. Any ideas on lowering the hardness are appreciated.

Don't lower it. Be happy. I don't know how high your GH and KH is because "top of the chart" doesn't meaning anything to me, but KH and GH have to be unbelievably high to do harm.

With the Algae fix, I am going by the label with how much I add, but it is not stopping the algae growth, only slowing it. On Monday when I did the water change, I also used the vacuum to get out as much debris from the rocks on the bottom, but the sides of the pond, and the larger rocks I have on the top ledge were all turning green. Before I was using the Algae fix, the rocks would be covered in green algae within 4 - 5 days. After I started using Algae fix, it now takes close to 3 weeks to have the larger rocks start to turn green.

The labelled dose assumes healthy fish which in theory are able to live through the toxicity. Fish which have been in a high ammonia environment are no where close to healthy. For the living fish the damage is probably permanent, at least that's the assumption I would use going forward.

Green algae growing on rocks is an asset in water gardens. I assume you're adding the AlgaeFix because you don't like the look or want to trim it back manually. If you're do it because you think algae is bad for fish you can stop using the AlgaeFix.

I think it is getting better, but it still has a way to go. One thing though, Tuesday was the last day I lost a goldfish. I have not lost any fish yesterday, or today. I am down to about 20 or so goldfish, some small, some larger, plus my 5 koi and 1 sucker fish. Not sure if I have not lost any in a couple of days because of the Ammo Lock, or if so many goldfish died, the pond is "leveling" out, but since none have died in 2 days, I will keep doing what I'm doing.

Smart money is on the Lock. 2.0 ppm ammonia is deadly if not bound.

 

[bettaozzie]

I agree guys thats definately too many fish for that size pond. The amount of Ammonia in the water would almost definately be the problem. The smaller fish would react sooner to this. You need to think about how big the fish will
Grow and most certainly look at an aeration system for the pond. I
Hope you sort it out because if you don't the larger more expensive fish will suffer

 

[KB1ankenship]

My GH measured at 170, top of the scale I used is 180, and KH is 240, which is the highest the scale goes for that one.

As for the Algae, I did not know having it on the rocks was good for the fish, that's why I was using the algae fix. I do not mind the algae turning the rocks, or the sides of the pond green, I just want to keep the water clear so I can see the fish. If the rocks and sides are green, and that is beneficial to the fish, I will do that. Before I was using the algae fix, the rocks and sides turned green first, and then the water turned a murky green, so green I could not see the bottom.

Since I have my pond water very clear right now, just did a 25% water change on Monday, and have the Ammo Lock, what would be the best step moving forward? I only want to keep the water clear and as healthy as possible, everything else can go green.

How should I best keep the water clear while the pond is turning green? Once everything in the pond is green, how do I keep the water clear like that?

Thanks again.

 

[Waterbug]

My GH measured at 170, top of the scale I used is 180, and KH is 240, which is the highest the scale goes for that one.

The KH & GH are higher than many ponds, but where some high end Koi ponds keep those values. I would consider those values to be good.

As for the Algae, I did not know having it on the rocks was good for the fish, that's why I was using the algae fix. I do not mind the algae turning the rocks, or the sides of the pond green, I just want to keep the water clear so I can see the fish. If the rocks and sides are green, and that is beneficial to the fish, I will do that. Before I was using the algae fix, the rocks and sides turned green first, and then the water turned a murky green, so green I could not see the bottom.

Nothing stays the same in a pond. There are down sides to macro algae (general term for large algae as opposed to single cell green water algae). When it's bright and green it's great. If it gets too long it's a problem. There are many species, not all get long. And as it dies it becomes a problem. So if too long you can pull it out with your hands or using sticks. When it dies it should be removed with a net, vacuum, or filter.

Since I have my pond water very clear right now, just did a 25% water change on Monday, and have the Ammo Lock, what would be the best step moving forward? I only want to keep the water clear and as healthy as possible, everything else can go green.

How should I best keep the water clear while the pond is turning green? Once everything in the pond is green, how do I keep the water clear like that?

Instead of doing 25% water changes you can set up whats called a trickle water change. A lot easier and it can keep a pond clear. Here's a video that describes it, not too complex.

If you're real serious about clear water that generally means keeping the pond bottom very clean. There are lots of ways, from using a net to scoop, to using a vacuum, up to adding a bottom drain and filter. Whatever works for you.

There's going to be a line of people wanting to sell you all kinds of products in a bottle to "clean" your pond. Scams.

 

[KB1ankenship]

That video was very helpful. The video said the algae eaters should be in at least 500 gallons or more, is that even if they eat the fish food thing every day? Its a little round disk that I was told to feed them once a day.

I really like the idea of constant water replacement, as it can handle runoff, but I don't have a faucet near my pond. Now, if my pond is 150 gallons, and it is supposed to be 1 gallon per hour per 1,000 gallons, I would be looking at 0.15 gallons per hour, or about a gallon every 6 1/2 or 7 hours. Does the water change need to be from the bottom up, a tube pumping water to the bottom, or can the water be added from above, like a little drip waterfall?

Because I do not have a water faucet near the pond, I was thinking about a 5 or 10 gallon type wooden barrel for decoration with a hole on the bottom pouring water out into the pond slowly. I could start with a small hole and time the water, enlarging the hole as needed. Is that a possibility, as I could fill it every 2 days or so easily.

For the bottom of the pond, I have a hand pump vacuum thing I use, so that is not a problem. Hopefully I can essentially take a 10 gallon bucket with a hole in the bottom and have that drip into the pond for constant water change.

 

[Waterbug]

That video was very helpful. The video said the algae eaters should be in at least 500 gallons or more, is that even if they eat the fish food thing every day? Its a little round disk that I was told to feed them once a day.

I don't think size of pond would be related to food.

I really like the idea of constant water replacement, as it can handle runoff, but I don't have a faucet near my pond. Now, if my pond is 150 gallons, and it is supposed to be 1 gallon per hour per 1,000 gallons, I would be looking at 0.15 gallons per hour, or about a gallon every 6 1/2 or 7 hours. Does the water change need to be from the bottom up, a tube pumping water to the bottom, or can the water be added from above, like a little drip waterfall?

Either.

Because I do not have a water faucet near the pond, I was thinking about a 5 or 10 gallon type wooden barrel for decoration with a hole on the bottom pouring water out into the pond slowly. I could start with a small hole and time the water, enlarging the hole as needed. Is that a possibility, as I could fill it every 2 days or so easily.

For the bottom of the pond, I have a hand pump vacuum thing I use, so that is not a problem. Hopefully I can essentially take a 10 gallon bucket with a hole in the bottom and have that drip into the pond for constant water change.

That would work as long as the water went into the pond very slowly.

 

[KB1ankenship]

Good to know I can add the water up top, that will be very easy to do. I plan on having .15 to .20 gallons an hour pouring in, about a gallon every 4 - 5 hours.

For my sucker fish, he is about 4 inches, is it ok to keep him in there for now and move him later, or should I take him out now? Is there anyway I can keep him? I really like the sucker fish, but if it will not be healthy or happy, I want that more.

 

[Waterbug]

For my sucker fish, he is about 4 inches, is it ok to keep him in there for now and move him later, or should I take him out now? Is there anyway I can keep him? I really like the sucker fish, but if it will not be healthy or happy, I want that more.

There's no correct answer for this. Would the fish be healthier or happier another place? Depends on the another place. Few people ever even test water much less try and improve water. Can fish be happy? Can that happiness be measured?

I know there are lot's a "experts" who hear 150 gal pond and knee jerk response "oh you have to move those fish". You will get a line of people around the block just waiting to tell you their "expert" opinion. The internet has provided a platform these people never had before. The when a person's opinion was judged by merit and reputation has passed. We are in a new age where opinion is judged solely on the number of times a person has posted BS in a public forum. It's a great day for neo-experts.

Here's how I look at it...if you could divide a pond into perfect water conditions and not so good water conditions, and fish could make a choice, I think the fish would pick which ever had the most food. I base that on watching fish in the wild and my experience as a life long fisherman.

It seems to me me people think fish think the same as they do. If water looks dirty the fish must hate it as much as a human would. If water smells bad to us the fish must hate it too. But these things are not true. Goldfish, Koi and sucker fish hate clear water and love mucky bottoms. It may not be good for them, but I can relate. Virtually nothing I do is good for me.

IMO keeping fish happy means food #1 and interesting environment #2, and do your best for water quality.

 

[HARO]

KB1; I believe the reason you shouldn't use a plecostomus in less than 500 g. of water is that it can clear off ALL the algae, so you would lose the benefits of the algae in your pond. Remember, it's a great natural filter.
John