Feeding Temp Question?

[Dave 54]

She would save a lot of money, Dave.

Seriously, the heat output of a cattle trough heater is miniscule compared to the heating capacity of the earth.
Combine that with the heat loss of a pond, using the calculator in my signature below (has anyone actually gone through the math exercise, besides myself?..............), all a cattle trough heater does is provide a larger viewing window into the pond.
That's an expensive window.

Using a cattle trough heater is like standing in an unheated house and lighting a match, holding your hand over it and thinking, wow, that match is hot! Good thing it's heating the whole house!


For example, if I remember correctly, my pond would require 186,000 BTU of heat to maintain a reasonable temperature (10 celcius) in my pond during typical winter weather ( -30 celcius)
A 1500 watt heater puts out approximately 5000 BTU's.
Nowhere near enough to make any difference.

Maintaining an ice cap and using an active aeration product will both save money and keep the pond warmer, if you are concerned about water temperature.
If you have any studies that demonstrate that koi are "near death" below 2 celcius, I would be interested to see them.

.

Elaine my Canadian koi keeping friend gave up keeping the koi in the pond all winter under 2ft of ice trying her best to maintain an airhole at -24c and windchill of -54c .
Prefaring instead to bring them indoors along with the ponds filters and water keeping a temperature of 11c throughout .
Since she started doing this at my bequest she has lost no more koi to the cold as to sleeping sickness I can only quote the page from the book I previously mentioned to @Meyer Jordan
From what is said the reader comes to the conclusion that that at 2.c a koi is nearer to death than to being alive.
From then on in the colder it goes the greater the risk of it dying via sleeping sickness

Dave

 

[MitchM]

Yes Dave, I remember seeing the pictures you posted about your friend.
Both Colleen and myself have experienced -40 celcius in the past couple of years, and my weather station has registered -52 celcius wind chill while Colleen is in an area that is more protected from the wind. Unfortunately she does not have a weather station.

Using the term "near death" sound dramatic and I constantly see inaccurate generalizations regarding koi and cold water.
I read posts about people insisting they have to heat their pond or their koi will certainly die.
I would really like to some evidence regarding that.
Meyer Jordan posted something about recommendations from the AKCA that stated ponds must be at least twice the depth of the frost line. That means that my pond would need to be more that 8 feet (2.4 meters) deep.
That's ridiculous.
(I don't mean to infer that Meyer Jordan supports that assertion)

This is the kind of stuff that perpetuates old wives tales and I'm sure causes new ponders to make mistakes.
Sorry for venting, I would just like people to think first and educate themselves before blindly following old wives tales.

.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

20 years ago, I used to drill holes in the ice with an auger, and feed my fish. They were large and it was cool to see them swim fast just under the ice, eating food.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What is termed sleeping sickness but if you recall you last year you called it sleepy sickness.
Its mentioned in the Koi health book I have by Tony Pitham and Keith holmes ISBN 1842860992 on page 129 in part three of the book
Just checked up on what your talking about m'mmm I'm even more confused than before :-

http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=153798&CultureCode=en

It has to be two seperate things Meyer there is no mention of sunken eyes or swollen gills in The book I mentioned

Dave

Here is the link to the research paper of Sleepy sickness/carp edema.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/tbed.12293/full

and this-
"Sleeping sickness. Caused by blood flagellates (protozoans) - egs cryptobia (which affects cyprinids including carp, goldfish and tench) and trypanosoma. Fish contract the disease having been bitten by leeches. There is no specific treatment for the disease, so remove infected fish and leeches from the aquarium."
--http://www.provet.co.uk/fish/fishswim.htm

Neither is precipitated by low temperatures.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

That means that my pond would need to be more that 8 feet (2.4 meters) deep.
That's ridiculous.
(I don't mean to infer that Meyer Jordan supports that assertion)

I knew that someone would catch that. This is another one of those "professional expert" announcements that have no basis in science.
What makes this especially disturbing is that this came from the leading Koi hobbyist association.

 

[MitchM]

..
What makes this especially disturbing is that this came from the leading Koi hobbyist association.

...it's based in California....

 

[Meyer Jordan]

...it's based in California....

 

[Dave 54]

Name ?

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Name ?

Dave

None other than the AKCA.

 

[Dave 54]

None other than the AKCA.

I dont believe it lol what a blunder
BKKS recomends a minimum depth of 4.5ft and a recomended depth of 5ft

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I dont believe it lol what a blunder
BKKS recomends a minimum depth of 4.5ft and a recomended depth of 5ft

Dave

4.5 - 5 foot maximum depth makes more sense because the likelihood of a thermocline developing is minimal. Once a thermocline develops all depth below this demarcation is useless to fish.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

Why is the water below a thermocline useless to fish?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I dont believe it lol what a blunder
BKKS recomends a minimum depth of 4.5ft and a recomended depth of 5ft

Dave

4.5 - 5 foot maximum depth makes more sense because the likelihood of a thermocline developing is minimal. Once a thermocline develops all depth below this demarcation is useless to fish.

Why is the water below a thermocline useless to fish?

Very low to no Oxygen.

 

[Dave 54]

4.5 - 5 foot maximum depth makes more sense because the likelihood of a thermocline developing is minimal. Once a thermocline develops all depth below this demarcation is useless to fish.

Very low to no Oxygen.

hence the 4,4-5ft of the BKKS's ruling on a ponds depth .

Dave