Do I need bottom drains?

[Tula]

I didn't know about bottom drains when my pond was built. If I was redoing it, I'd make it bigger and have a bottom drain.

That said, I'm content with my pond just as it is

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The build-up of muck (dead leaves and algae) on the bottom of ponds is why so many people (even in this forum) recommend against rock-bottom ponds because it's so hard to clean out. So it must be a common problem.

Yes, it is a too common problem, one that is caused by a deficit in pond design or husbandry or both.

 

[Lisak1]

So it must be a common problem.

That seems to be the case. I have a gravel bottom pond. Why don't I have build up? Just something I wonder about. If I get in and stir up the gravel there's a small amount of silt, but nothing that could be considered mulm or muck. It settles within seconds. It's definitely not something you could scoop. I do a lot of plant grooming so very little plant material ends up in the bottom. I have good movement from waterfall to skimmer - I get a good amount of plant material in the "skimmer" (actually a negative edge, but it acts as the skimmer would). From a pond construction point of view, it's pretty standard. Maybe my fish devour it all. Who knows.

 

[sissy]

My pond is over 5000 gallons so not so small but netting it is relaxing .I only have water lettuce in my pond and the ones hanging on the side are in window screening pockets and I trim the tops off and lettuce taken out .It is covered where lettuce is now with plastic and lettuce has not been harmed to bad by cold weather .Tomorrow I will take it all out when it is in the 50's .I have a hose from my pump on the bottom that has holes drilled in it that helps gunk get pushed to the filter .It can all come down to how much money you want to spend on building a pond also .When you have a budget you have a budget and there is always something else to spend that money on that you save in doing the pond .I would prefer to use that money for other things I enjoy doing .I would never want to push people into going over budget and then they fail and give up .

 

[addy1]

That seems to be the case. I have a gravel bottom pond. Why don't I have build up? Just something I wonder about. If I get in and stir up the gravel there's a small amount of silt, but nothing that could be considered mulm or muck. It settles within seconds. It's definitely not something you could scoop. I do a lot of plant grooming so very little plant material ends up in the bottom. I have good movement from waterfall to skimmer - I get a good amount of plant material in the "skimmer" (actually a negative edge, but it acts as the skimmer would). From a pond construction point of view, it's pretty standard. Maybe my fish devour it all. Who knows.

I have, a few times, decided I needed to net the bottom, but after a few scoops of nothing I quit. Mine is the same, not much settles or stays on the bottom. I am not the best at grooming the plants, but still not much on the bottom. One time I did the entire pond, got maybe 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket of debris off the bottom. Decided it was not worth the effort. Most of the bottom you can see the naked pea gravel bottom, pea gravel that wandered in over time.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have, a few times, decided I needed to net the bottom, but after a few scoops of nothing I quit. Mine is the same, not much settles or stays on the bottom. I am not the best at grooming the plants, but still not much on the bottom. One time I did the entire pond, got maybe 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket of debris off the bottom. Decided it was not worth the effort. Most of the bottom you can see the naked pea gravel bottom, pea gravel that wandered in over time.

Well, I'm not sure what you got going on but you gals are lucky, I get plenty of stuff that settles in my settling tank, and from my last pond and the other ponds I've seen (without bottom drains) it's pretty standard to get a good layer of sediment at the bottom of the pond over time.
Figure out your secret and let us know what you are doing differently than the rest of us.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Yes, it is a too common problem, one that is caused by a deficit in pond design or husbandry or both.

What sorts of mistakes (deficits) do you feel people are making with their ponds that would lead to too much muck build up?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What sorts of mistakes (deficits) do you feel people are making with their ponds that would lead to too much muck build up?

Unequivocally, the primary chronic cause of sediment build-up is the unrestricted, repetitive addition of fish food in amounts beyond a garden pond's capacity to process in a timely manner. Leaf litter and other wind-blown organic debris may result in temporary issues, but because they are typically seasonal there is sufficient time for the pond's bacterial population to process (oxidize) this temporary organic litter. What little remains can be collected in some form of sump for external disposal.
For some unknown reason, most garden ponds are first constructed and then the question of how many fish can it support is raised. The proper method is to determine how many fish are desired and the pond designed and constructed based on this number. If available space or budget is lacking to accommodate this number, then this number should be reduced.
An entire book could be written on this subject.

 

[sissy]

I guess if you do not over feed your fish you will not have much waste .

 

[brokensword]

Unequivocally, the primary chronic cause of sediment build-up is the unrestricted, repetitive addition of fish food in amounts beyond a garden pond's capacity to process in a timely manner. ...
For some unknown reason, most garden ponds are first constructed and then the question of how many fish can it support is raised. The proper method is to determine how many fish are desired and the pond designed and constructed based on this number. If available space or budget is lacking to accommodate this number, then this number should be reduced.
An entire book could be written on this subject.

But Meyer, methinks you're asking an unanswerable question, no? I mean, does ANYBODY really know how many fish they'll eventually want? Doesn't this happen AFTER we put too many in? I mean, I never sat by my pond and ever said 'gee, that's exactly the number of fish I needed/wanted'. No, most of the time I'm thinking 'I can probably get ONE more and be alright!' And of course, that's the thought for more than a few successive viewings, you know? Check out the Koi Addiction thread and watch Audio rationalize each additional addition. I mean, he DOES have an exit strategy but not many can buy and give away as he's (going to be) doing! Heh heh.

Of course you're right, but you're putting an awful lot of personal responsibility on a person, don'tcha know?? I figure too many would split a seam just tryin'...


Michael

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

But Meyer, methinks you're asking an unanswerable question, no? I mean, does ANYBODY really know how many fish they'll eventually want? Doesn't this happen AFTER we put too many in? I mean, I never sat by my pond and ever said 'gee, that's exactly the number of fish I needed/wanted'. No, most of the time I'm thinking 'I can probably get ONE more and be alright!' And of course, that's the thought for more than a few successive viewings, you know? Check out the Koi Addiction thread and watch Audio rationalize each additional addition. I mean, he DOES have an exit strategy but not many can buy and give away as he's (going to be) doing! Heh heh.

Of course you're right, but you're putting an awful lot of personal responsibility on a person, don'tcha know?? I figure too many would split a seam just tryin'...


Michael

Kinda like when you first get married....yeah Honey I want 2.13 kids...... and when you have 4 you have to adjust.....now some of us do go overboard (not mentioning my name) ....but when we stumble, we ask for advice, try our best to listen and act on it, adjust, learn.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Unequivocally, the primary chronic cause of sediment build-up is the unrestricted, repetitive addition of fish food in amounts beyond a garden pond's capacity to process in a timely manner.

That I find hard to believe.
I would think that a pond would have major issues with ammonia levels long before the fish poop accumulation could get to any significant visible levels. Fish poop breaks down very easily and is virtually impossible to net out, sort of like trying to use a net to scoop up cigarette ash, which is why so many koi purists resort to gravity fed bottom drains systems where you stand the best chance of capturing the delicate poops without stirring them into fine dust.

I can attest that any solid fish poops mixed in with the mulm and debris in my pond are pretty insignificant, the bulk of it is dead algae and plant matter. Especially dead algae and dead lily leaves and flowers that die off throughout the growing season. My current pond is raised and surrounded by walls, so I don't find many wind-blown leaves getting in there unless there is a significant wind storm, although in previous ponds that was an issue.

Edit: After posting this I realized that you are probably talking about actual uneaten/undigested fish food which I guess could maintain a relatively firm consistency once it sunk to the bottom of the pond, but I still think ammonia levels would go through the roof if you had visibly accumulation levels on the bottom of the pond.

 

[Lisak1]

the bulk of it is dead algae and plant matter. Especially dead algae and dead lily leaves and flowers that die off throughout the growing season.

That may be part of the difference - I remove all dead lily pads, faded blossoms and any other dead or dying plant matter. And the algae is handled by the fish. They are like a landscaping crew, keeping the algae clipped close to the rocks. And maybe that's because they aren't overfed - they have to work for some of their food. When people say "remove any food your fish don't eat in X amount of minutes" I'm like "huh?" We feed in small amounts at a time, making sure every morsel is gone before we toss in more. We kind of have to - the current will carry any food out and over the edge before they can eat it if we feed too much at a time. And we stop long before they are full. But once the food stops falling from the sky, the grazing starts. We say they are like the French, eating their salad after their main course!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I guess if you do not over feed your fish you will not have much waste .

Change the word 'fish' to 'pond' and that is fairly accurate.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

But Meyer, methinks you're asking an unanswerable question, no? I mean, does ANYBODY really know how many fish they'll eventually want? Doesn't this happen AFTER we put too many in? I mean, I never sat by my pond and ever said 'gee, that's exactly the number of fish I needed/wanted'. No, most of the time I'm thinking 'I can probably get ONE more and be alright!' And of course, that's the thought for more than a few successive viewings, you know? Check out the Koi Addiction thread and watch Audio rationalize each additional addition. I mean, he DOES have an exit strategy but not many can buy and give away as he's (going to be) doing! Heh heh.

Of course you're right, but you're putting an awful lot of personal responsibility on a person, don'tcha know?? I figure too many would split a seam just tryin'...


Michael

Yet, in aquaculture this is exactly the approach. The fish production facility is designed to produce a certain volume of marketable product.