Do I need bottom drains?

[sissy]

I have friend here that has a big fish tank with nothing but fish in it and the poor fish swim like crazy to you when they see you looking in at them ,they look so happy to see you .That was the reason I said fish tank with nothing in it but fish .He says he does that so it is easier to clean .I don't think fish agree with him .

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

Just because you have a dedicated koi pond and a bottom drain doesn’t mean you can’t have plants.......had to thin mine out this summer, they were taking over the pond......although with Koi it is a challenge making your plants “Koi Proof”..... lol

 

[sissy]

My koi used to destroy every thing but now that they are getting older it does not happen as much .But my aggie still kills frogs and sucks out the insides and i get the pleasure of scooping out the rest with having my morning coffee .Not fun

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

As aggravating as Toad breeding season is...... I am looking forward to it.....I hate winter

 

[Lisak1]

Just because you have a dedicated koi pond and a bottom drain doesn’t mean you can’t have plants

Most koi keepers would disagree with you @Jimmy Gibson . Go on any koi pond forum and talk about your plants in your pond... we'll help you reattach your head when you get back.

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

I never said it was easy..... but it can be done..... never did figure out how to keep them out of my Parrot feathers though

 

[Lisak1]

Oh I don't disagree with you. But I can point you in the direction of people who will. Koi keepers who are in it for the fish won't have anything in the pond other than fish and water. Rocks and plants are an absolute no-no. But I love the eco-pond approach - fish, water, plants all working together.

 

[sissy]

Yep and those pond forums are mean and really don't have many posts on them because of that .That is also why a lot of people are turned off on forums .Lucky we are not like that .We survive with our ponds and maybe we make mistakes but we do not look down at new ponders ,we just try to help them succeed .We don't want them to mistakes we may have made and give up .

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Personally I like my bottom drain, since I shaped my pond and sloped the whole pond to the bottom drain I have no problem with muck.....leaves and such on the bottom.....that being said if you plan on babies or small fish the bottom drain is a death trap......out of the 47 baby koi that I raised this year probably twice that many ended up in the pump prefilter......

Your death trap is not the bottom drain, but rather whatever it is you have plumbed after your bottom drain.
My bottom drain is plumbed to a settling tank where often little fish and sometimes my frogs end up. They just hang out in the settling tank until I get around to netting them out. I had two little fry hanging out all summer, in fact, they are still in there.
What sort of prefilter are you using and why?

My last pond that didn't have a bottom drain had a submerged type prefilter that prevented fish from getting sucked into the pump, I always had to fish that thing out of the pond and clean it. It was not an easy or enjoyable task. Also, I was relegated to netting the muck and mulm out of the bottom of my pond when it accumulated and I didn't like the way that stirred everything up in the pond and made the water dirt for a while. Conversely, I find pulling a lever and draining the accumulated sediment out of my settling tank like I do now is far simpler and has no effect on the clarity of the water in the pond.
When I learned about pond drain systems I thought "that's the way to go", and now after having one I certainly don't regret it.

And I'm sorry, but the whole fear thing about not wanting to cut a hole in your liner to install a bottom drain is a bit ridiculous and not a very valid reason for not wanting to have a bottom drain. I'm not saying everyone has to have a bottom drain, there are plenty of other types of ways to plumb and filter your pond, but cutting the little round hole in the liner once you lay it over your bottom drain is a very simple task and should not dissuade someone from installing a bottom drain who might be thinking about installing one. Anybody who is able to take on post-toddler challenges from brushing their teeth to driving a car should have no problem successfully cutting that hole in the liner and installing the top cover of the bottom drain without screwing it up.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Another point, I certainly don't have a bottom drain because I have a dedicated koi pond, I do have a few koi mutts but they are far outnumbered by my goldfish, minnows, frogs, and turtle. I like my bottom drain because it is so effective at removing all the dead plant and algae matter that sinks to the bottom of the pond. I have a lot of plants.

 

[sissy]

I would not say bottom drains do not work ,I just say to some it is not worth it or the risk .I myself would never try it .Plus I like standing out there netting gunk from the bottom .It is funny to watch the fish swim into the net when I am cleaning to see if I am picking up some goodies they may want .Sure wish they would do that when I want to catch them .I have to catch at least 6 of them for a well established pond owner that decided they finally want fish after a year .Fish know the difference ,so they are smarter than we think .Plus in the next couple of years I plan on pulling the liner and back filling the area .We all have to think of the future of our ponds .They are not an asset for house sale in some areas .

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I just say to some it is not worth it or the risk .I myself would never try it .

Hey Sissy, I completely agree with you that putting in a bottom drain may not be worth it to some people, in fact, I don't see much value in small ponds or preforms where you have little muck build-up and easy access to the bottom of the pond within arms reach. And certainly, if you are only planning on setting up a temporary pond you wouldn't want to install a bottom drain, or a skimmer for that matter, and cut that hole in your liner. But for normal more permanent pond setups I fail to see any risk in installing a bottom drain beyond normal plumbing procedures like connecting two ends of a hose or pipe up to your pump or external filters, etc... It's just not that hard.

You may really enjoy swirling a net around and netting muck out of the bottom of your pond, but for those that don't find it all that fun of a thing to do on a regular basis, that might be just the reason a person might want to install a bottom drain.

 

[Lisak1]

I'm always curious when people say they have a lot of debris and mulm at the bottom of their pond that needs scooping - why don't I have that? I have A LOT of plants in and around my pond, but I never had more than a few leaves to scoop out of the pond bottom. Not that I'm complaining... just wondering.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I'm always curious when people say they have a lot of debris and mulm at the bottom of their pond that needs scooping - why don't I have that? I have A LOT of plants in and around my pond, but I never had more than a few leaves to scoop out of the pond bottom. Not that I'm complaining... just wondering.

I'm always curious when people say they have a lot of plants but don't have muck and mulm build up in their ponds. After all, leafy plants like lilies and parrots feather continuously die off, especially in the fall, what happens to all the dead leaves? I know that dead plant matter and algae will eventually break down and basically dissolve and turn into DOCs but that takes time, and I prefer to remove them from the water cycle before that happens.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

The build-up of muck (dead leaves and algae) on the bottom of ponds is why so many people (even in this forum) recommend against rock-bottom ponds because it's so hard to clean out. So it must be a common problem.