Darksaber Pond - My Next Adventure

[milonedp]

So while they are working on the build I have some other questions that I'd love input on.

1. Quarantine methods? Who does what? Does that change if you plan to only buy from one breeder?
2. Stocking Levels? What is a good way to estimate how many Koi or other fish we could have, I'm having the filter overbuilt and yet I still want to make sure I'm not on the high end.

 

[Jhn]

Interesting start...

I have Qt’d my koi in the past in a 300 gallon Rubbermaid tub for 4-6 weeks. Pretty much just observed them to make sure the showed no signs of illness then released them into the pond, didn’t treat them unless they showed signs of illness. Recently in the past couple years I bought koi online from a vendor that qt’s all their fish before offering them for sale.

Appropriate Stocking levels are hard to say, as everyone’s set up is different, but will say everyone eventually becomes overstocked, unless you put some type of fish in there to eat the fry. Most say about a 1000 gallons each Koi, but I was never crazy about the cookie cutter stocking level thing. For the above mentioned reason.You can get away with more fish in my opinion, using an appropriately sized bog/wetland filter and heavily planting the pond itself, as well as proper circulation.

My pond for instance is roughly 10,000 gallons, and with out a doubt is overstocked with various species of fish (too many to count) and 7 turtles, but I recently enlarged the bog and the pond is heavily planted, so it stays in balance. (It’s going on 11 years old and hasn’t crashed on me yet)...It also matters what plants you use in the bog and pond ie quick growers whether it be through root spread or runners For nutrient uptake. Personally , I prefer aggressive quick growing plants that can be weeded out (nutrient export)easily without having to rip out massive roots.

 

[GBBUDD]

One thing i did was to separate the bog i did the aquablocks bog and the i also did a smaller pea stone bog so if i ever did have to work on the bog for some reason i had a mature second filter already running.

@Jhn is more experienced in this matter then I. I was naïve in thinking if i bought only from top suppliers there would be no issue s. Well i cant say my troubles came from one or another but timing and circumstance said ah yup new fish. So quarantine is an absolute must the more your preserve the better off you'll be .

Cant stress below enough

MAKE SURE YOU ACURATELY MEASURE HOW MUCH WATER YOU HAVE IN THE POND SO IF YOU DO HAVE TO MEDICATE YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH YOU NEED ..

 

[milonedp]

One thing i did was to separate the bog i did the aquablocks bog and the i also did a smaller pea stone bog so if i ever did have to work on the bog for some reason i had a mature second filter already running.

@Jhn is more experienced in this matter then I. I was naïve in thinking if i bought only from top suppliers there would be no issue s. Well i cant say my troubles came from one or another but timing and circumstance said ah yup new fish. So quarantine is an absolute must the more your preserve the better off you'll be .

Cant stress below enough

MAKE SURE YOU ACURATELY MEASURE HOW MUCH WATER YOU HAVE IN THE POND SO IF YOU DO HAVE TO MEDICATE YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH YOU NEED ..

Agree completely! I bought some water flow meters from Amazon so that when we fill out up I can get a volume. Do you have a different suggestion or a particular brand you trust more?

 

[cas]

Thanks for posting videos of your pond build. My pond is snow covered right now, so it is extra fun watching. It looks like it is going to be a nice pond!

 

[GBBUDD]

Agree completely! I bought some water flow meters from Amazon so that when we fill out up I can get a volume. Do you have a different suggestion or a particular brand you trust more?

To be honest I would get it from a local plumbing supply and have a back up just in case. Its that important and like my pond it gets pricey to fill a pond that size just to find out how many gallons . Are you using the hose or water truck

 

[Lisak1]

Here's my take on quarantine - if you're buying all your fish at one time from the same supplier, then your pond becomes your QT tank. Otherwise, you'd have to QT them all in separate tanks... and who's doing that? If you're planning to buy a few fish at time, then you will have a different issue to work through.

While you will never hear me saying QT is NOT important, I think it's also realistic to realize two things: 1. not every pond owner has room for a large QT that can safely house a fish - or multiple fish even - for 4-6 weeks and 2. while you are making sure the new fish won't infect your old fish, there's no way to be sure that your old fish (or your pond itself) won't infect your new fish. So as careful as we try to be with adding new fish, there's really no 100% guarantee.

We had a big fish die off two years ago from a parasitic infection so while we were treating the remaining fish in the pond, we went ahead and added new fish directly to the in-the-process-of-being-treated pond. 100% success rate with ending the die-off and adding the new fish. Will that work every time? Doubtful.

All that is to say - do the best you can and hope for a good outcome.

As for stocking level - figure out how many fish you can have, and get less. Here's a chart I frequently share that gives a bit of help for calculating fish load:

Koi Length and Weight - Ammonia Produced, and Waste Produced

This chart also lists koi weight by weight and how much ammonia and waste they produce. Koi get heavier as they grow and produce more ammonia and waste.

russellwatergardens.com

 

[milonedp]

To be honest I would get it from a local plumbing supply and have a back up just in case. Its that important and like my pond it gets pricey to fill a pond that size just to find out how many gallons . Are you using the hose or water truck

I'll see what they have, I did get a backup but for this project, I'm not against returning the ones I got and getting something better if I can find it. I'll be using the hose to fill it up.

 

[GBBUDD]

if you have a back up you should be ok

 

[milonedp]

First of the rocks came today, and expanding the wetland filter.

 

[milonedp]

As for stocking level - figure out how many fish you can have, and get less. Here's a chart I frequently share that gives a bit of help for calculating fish load:

Koi Length and Weight - Ammonia Produced, and Waste Produced

This chart also lists koi weight by weight and how much ammonia and waste they produce. Koi get heavier as they grow and produce more ammonia and waste.

russellwatergardens.com

Thanks. For the SSA, I'm doing a wetland filter and stream, any guidance on how I could calculate SSA for that?

 

[Jhn]

Thanks. For the SSA, I'm doing a wetland filter and stream, any guidance on how I could calculate SSA for that?

Here you go this guy tells you the SSA of various substrate from sand to river rock...

 

[Lisak1]

Yeah... SSA involves math which is not in my wheelhouse! I like that particular resource as it puts to rest the "inches of fish to gallons of water" myth that circulates in the pond world. If you compare 18 inches of goldfish to an 18 inch koi, you see how dramatically different they are in the amount of waste they produce and the pressure that puts on your filtration.

I've honestly never seen anyone with a definitive answer to the question of "how many fish can I have" that really can't be proven wrong on some level. You'll hear that you need 1000 gallons for the first koi and XXX number of gallons for each additional. But that doesn't take into account what kind of filtration you're using, so that's not highly reliable either. Nor does it factor in that when you buy those koi they may be 4 inches long and within a couple of years top 2 feet. And unfortunately the one sure way to know you have too many fish is when disaster strikes, and that's never a good experience.

The only "formula" I would stick with is "more water and less fish" - you can't go wrong by under stocking your pond. And you can always add more fish - or your fish will do it for you! - when you get comfortable with what you're managing.

 

[brokensword]

there's really a simple solution to this; the forumla for fish to gallons is when you think there's too many fish, start digging again. Easy to remember, too...no math!

 

[addy1]

Pick out the best fish you can, colors types etc. And then let them breed and have fun!

I started with shubunkins, have had some poof away over the years, (herons owls and who knows why) so 10 years later still at a good stocking level for the pond, beautiful pond bred fish. I do net the pond against herons, we are right in their flight path.