CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[combatwombat]

mention all the great looking and smelling flowers that'll be dotting the new landscape, all the flowers YOU'LL be picking for her...then casually insert the new stream...something like that!

Regular Casanova over here...

I know I'd have a minimum of 6" extra liner to take care of this potential problem, hence my back and sides of my bog v2 are that way.

Sigh. Alright, I guess I'd better do it, then.

 

[brokensword]

Regular Casanova over here...



Sigh. Alright, I guess I'd better do it, then.

you'll not be sorry; when I did bog v1, I didn't know this might happen and I miscalculated how much extra liner for the bog. I ended up with about 1" above my water level. It didn't take much time before I was losing water and had NO idea where it was. Finally, saw the water had risen and was making it's way out via folds in the bog liner. AND, I didn't have any extra to help me. I ended up lowering the water level, digging out that side and actually forcing the liner in, backing it up with dirt, and gained maybe 3 more inches. Even that I watched carefully to see if it was enough to guarantee the bog water flowed in the direction I wanted. It did and when I redid my pond in 2019, I relined bog v1 so I corrected that mistake. Trust me, you'll sleep better by over engineering this. Digging up bog stone isn't fun; did mine in February during a warm spell and after 8 hours, my hands were like prunes (couldn't shovel the larger 2" and 8" stone out, I had to lift them all by hand). Was a very bad experience.

 

[GBBUDD]

Everyone says the additional freeboard is a good safety measure, but as a newbie to bog building, I don't totally get why it's necessary. If your spillway is 3" below your liner edge, how does the water get so backed up that you need more freeboard? Is it that the plants grow into the spillway and dam it up or something?

I have found water wicking up rubber up to 2 inches. And plant matter even more so. Take my word for it 6 inches is not hard to hide expecialy in year two or three your bog will be over flowing with plants and they will hide any chance of a bead of pears or just a stack of rocks
Word of advice make sure to leave any rubber you have left there so if you do need to build up the wall down tge road it will be just building under the liner.

 

[combatwombat]

Ok, I have a wild idea. I went through @milonedp's showcase thread this morning and I loved the idea of using those resin stacked slate walls to create a bigger deep area.

Ever since we finished digging the main pond, I could not help but feel like the bottom end was just too narrow. It's only 4' wide. After boulders go in, it'll only be about 2' wide. Just enough to wade around in. It's not the worst, but it could be so much better!

So... I am now thinking about pulling the whole liner out (or folding back) and digging out at least one side of the bottom shelf—probably the side closest to the house—down to the bottom so that there would only be 2 shelves on that side.

That would leave me with a 3' wall at the bottom to support, and I'm thinking I could do a block retaining wall down there. I looked up pricing for those stacked slate walls and there is no way that is going to work on my budget.

You wouldn't really see it from any of the main viewing angles, and it would provide 2 major improvements to the pond:

1. More water volume.
2. More deep area for swimming.

What a hassle it will be to do it, though. And I will have to re-think steps/entrance to the pond. This project already feels never ending. I just can't stop changing the plan!

 

[addy1]

I have only one shelf in my pond that is the bog wall. Don't miss at all. But my pond goes from deep to shallow, the lower end has the lilies the deep end the hornwort.
My pond in AZ was over 5 deep every wall, needed a rope pull to get out. This one I made it a walk out.

 

[combatwombat]

@addy1: Yeah, I don't think I will miss it, either. And 50% of the perimeter of the pond will still be easy to climb out of since the shelves on the back side (fence side) will remain. Actually, I could probably get rid of the lower shelf on the back, too if I want to REALLY open up the deep end space and then construct some stone stairs out or something.

Think I need to set some really big boulders in there so that I can't change my mind anymore.

 

[GBBUDD]

If you plan on a cinderblock wall outside the liner you'll need reinforced footing and rebar reinforced every other bay of the cinderblocks and filled with concrete . Not exactly the cheapest to build but not the most expensive either. I did similar in my build. But it was more for retaining the patio and the end wall was to build up that side due to my patio has a pitch and I didn't want a foot and a half drop on one side of the patio to the water level.
Just remember what may seem like taking forever to get the project done now is just a blink in time for the decades the pond will give back.

 

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: The wall would be inside the liner and would be those modular retaining wall blocks. I think most are rated to 3'—more if you get the interlocking kind.

The order of work would look something like this:

1. Pull back liner and underlayment
2. Remove bottom dirt shelf.
3. Dig 1' deep trench at bottom of pond along new shelf and compact.
4. Re-lay underlayment and liner
5. Place 6" of gravel base in trench.
6. Lay and level first row of blocks, which will be buried. The first row of blocks and gravel below create the footing.
7. Lay additional blocks, gluing to the row below, until the wall is complete.

Basically the same as building a landscape block retaining wall, but over the top of the liner. The wall takes the place of the boulders.

 

[GBBUDD]

Do your homework on the block they are not all created equal.

I would also rethink all that weight sitting on gravel on a liner. The thicker the base the less per sq inch it will put on the liner. But there's also corse sand.

 

[combatwombat]

Do your homework on the block they are not all created equal.

I would also rethink all that weight sitting on gravel on a liner. The thicker the base the less per sq inch it will put on the liner. But there's also corse sand.

Had same concern. Sand could be good substitute. Also, I have a super tough "overlayment" that I will sandwich the liner in. Can double, triple, quadruple lay it under the wall.

 

[GBBUDD]

If you do go with sand I would bury it under a piece of scrap liner and seal it so the sand can not be displaced by the water so it remains trapped no matter what and it's a win win

 

[brokensword]

Had same concern. Sand could be good substitute. Also, I have a super tough "overlayment" that I will sandwich the liner in. Can double, triple, quadruple lay it under the wall.

I may not be understanding exactly what you're doing, so bear that in mind when I say the next bit. I get the idea you're looking to create a stacked wall that is narrower hence more volume to swim around in. If you're also doing this for a visual, my experience may help in that area. My bog v2 wall is stacked sandstone. I wanted a visual and part of my bog is below the waterline while 12" is above. I found that despite I chose two different colors of stone for effect, it didn't take long for the algae to laugh at my misconception. So, what I'm saying is; if you're going for visual too, don't bother with anything nice much below the water line--use the blocks there, too, and THEN stack the good stuff on top. If you don't have water pouring over it as I do, you won't then lose any of the chosen color.

And I echo NOT putting blocks on gravel; a flat surface is a lot better than any weight driving smaller points of support into the liner below. Layer up under your wall and protect that liner, imo.

 

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: Good idea.

@brokensword: We’re on the same page there. I just want the wall to disappear, really.

As for the base material, I’ve been watching how the guys at Team Aquascapedo this detail, and that’s how they do it. They put down underlayment over the liner the. Put their gravel in for leveling, then build their wall.

 

[milonedp]

The guys that did mine used sand under and inside the stacked slate walls. It seems to have worked well.

 

[combatwombat]

The guys that did mine used sand under and inside the stacked slate walls. It seems to have worked well.

Rock on. Your pond is incredible. If mine ends up 1/10th as nice, I’ll be pleased.