COLOR TRANSFORMATION IN SHUBUNKINS & GOLDFISH

[bbeattie]

They were born from regular looking Shubunkins in my pond. I didn't buy them. Some are about 4 yrs old so easily mature enough to mate if they could.

 

[Mmathis]

They were born from regular looking Shubunkins in my pond. I didn't buy them. Some are about 4 yrs old so easily mature enough to mate if they could.

I’m just a dumb old lady, who really doesn’t know what she’s talking about most of the time. Take anything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[rubyduby]

Has nobody else seen pure brown shubunkins in their pond? Most of mine are the usual variety of colours of orange/black/blue/white. I've never seen a brown one chase a female as a male or being chased as a female...that's why I wonder if they're sterile?? I can't be the only one with pure brown shubunkins and I'm sure it's a genetic reversion to the colour they were developed from.

No, you are not the only one with many all brown shubunkins in their pond. I also have the same situation. I started with 4 shubunkins three years ago and now have 12 beautifully colored shubies about 7 inches long and 12 totally brown shubies which are also about 7 inches long and I have NEVER seen them chase a female like the others (however, due to their color I have a hard time keeping track of their habits) I have a new batch of fry in my pond and so far as I can see there are no brown ones but I am hoping that will remain the case. I have never introduced any other fish into the pond and the fact that they are all the same size makes me pretty sure they did not come in on plants, and they don't look much different from the others except for their color.
Welcome to the forum!

 

[bbeattie]

No, you are not the only one with many all brown shubunkins in their pond. I also have the same situation. I started with 4 shubunkins three years ago and now have 12 beautifully colored shubies about 7 inches long and 12 totally brown shubies which are also about 7 inches long and I have NEVER seen them chase a female like the others (however, due to their color I have a hard time keeping track of their habits) I have a new batch of fry in my pond and so far as I can see there are no brown ones but I am hoping that will remain the case. I have never introduced any other fish into the pond and the fact that they are all the same size makes me pretty sure they did not come in on plants, and they don't look much different from the others except for their color.
Welcome to the forum!

Thanks Ruby! Was beginning to wonder why others hadn't seen the browns. Do you agree they're probably a genetic reversion to their original roots?

 

[Lisak1]

I think what @Mmathis was saying is they aren't shubunkins if they don't display the calico colors. When breeders find the ones that aren't the desirable colors those fish go in the discard pile. But shubunkins are goldfish - there would be no more reason for a brown one to be sterile than the typical tri-colored ones. And yes we have a handful of brown ones. We also have black ones and white ones and white and orange ones - all normal color variations for "goldfish". The different names are just distinctions for colors - sarasa comets are orange and white, regular comets are orange to red-orange, etc. But they all can intermingle and just about anything can happen. We have a few sarrasa colored goldfish with shubunkin coloring in their tails only.

 

[Mmathis]

@Lisak1 Thank you — you read my mind, LOL! I’m becoming less articulate in my old age

 

[bbeattie]

I think what @Mmathis was saying is they aren't shubunkins if they don't display the calico colors. When breeders find the ones that aren't the desirable colors those fish go in the discard pile. But shubunkins are goldfish - there would be no more reason for a brown one to be sterile than the typical tri-colored ones. And yes we have a handful of brown ones. We also have black ones and white ones and white and orange ones - all normal color variations for "goldfish". The different names are just distinctions for colors - sarasa comets are orange and white, regular comets are orange to red-orange, etc. But they all can intermingle and just about anything can happen. We have a few sarrasa colored goldfish with shubunkin coloring in their tails only.

There is a tendency for far more pure browns than there is for pure black or white or orange ones. They are a different category of shubunkin genetics. Rubyduby said it best saying about half of her pond shubunkins are brown, but it's hard to tell if they're breeding because they're harder to see in a pond. I have about a 1/3 ratio of pure browns.

 

[bbeattie]

See Meyer Jordan's comment from 2017. I agree with him.

Full Black Shubunkin?

There were only 3 fishes previously(2 shubunkins & 1 red cap). And now there are many babies in my 2000liters pond.(https://www.gardenpondforum.com/posts/337409/) Now everything is normal but there is this one baby all black. Whenever I see him I wonder how a shubunkin can be all black, what is...

www.gardenpondforum.com

"A Shubunkin is a variety of Goldfish not a separate specie, This means that any progeny can include what are termed 'reversions' to the natural colored Carassius auratus, which is usually black or sometimes a blackish green. The belly will of the fish will be light colored, often white, sometimes gold."

Goldfish (Carassius auratus) - Species Profile

Species summary for Goldfish (Carassius auratus)

nas.er.usgs.gov

 

[bbeattie]

I'm also thinking that because most of my original shubinkins were bought at the same time, they were from the same breeder and hence the same shubunkin parent fish. So a genetic reversion of some kind may be more likely as in the case of human cousins marrying...their children are more likely to inherit recessive genes.

 

[rubyduby]

Thanks Ruby! Was beginning to wonder why others hadn't seen the browns. Do you agree they're probably a genetic reversion to their original roots?

Yes, I agree! ...and interestingly enough, last night I saw three 1 1/2" frye...Two were very colorful and one is dark brown/black...So someone is throwing this color in my pond....and no, they do not change color as they age. They stay Very dark brown with brown/gold bellies when netted and exposed to the light.

 

[bbeattie]

Yes, I agree! ...and interestingly enough, last night I saw three 1 1/2" frye...Two were very colorful and one is dark brown/black...So someone is throwing this color in my pond....and no, they do not change color as they age. They stay Very dark brown with brown/gold bellies when netted and exposed to the light.

"...So someone is throwing this color in my pond" LOL

 

[rubyduby]

See Meyer Jordan's comment from 2017. I agree with him.

Full Black Shubunkin?

There were only 3 fishes previously(2 shubunkins & 1 red cap). And now there are many babies in my 2000liters pond.(https://www.gardenpondforum.com/posts/337409/) Now everything is normal but there is this one baby all black. Whenever I see him I wonder how a shubunkin can be all black, what is...

www.gardenpondforum.com

"A Shubunkin is a variety of Goldfish not a separate specie, This means that any progeny can include what are termed 'reversions' to the natural colored Carassius auratus, which is usually black or sometimes a blackish green. The belly will of the fish will be light colored, often white, sometimes gold."

Goldfish (Carassius auratus) - Species Profile

Species summary for Goldfish (Carassius auratus)

nas.er.usgs.gov

Exactly.....