Bog pump vault / centipede

[brokensword]

TM: what I like about the bog (once I adapt to the once-a-year cleaning) is that I spend very little time bothering with it. I set plants once in the spring (for those that can't survive over the winter) and now, will backflush as I outlined above in the fall. So most of my time is spent sitting by the pond. For me, a bog/upflow wetland filter IS a better system. I'm told once you know what you're doing, backflushing can take about 30 minutes. Beats changing filters out on any regular basis, but that's how I see it, and it's also better for me because I get to have more pond plants!

 

[Mmathis]

TM: what I like about the bog (once I adapt to the once-a-year cleaning) is that I spend very little time bothering with it. I set plants once in the spring (for those that can't survive over the winter) and now, will backflush as I outlined above in the fall. So most of my time is spent sitting by the pond. For me, a bog/upflow wetland filter IS a better system. I'm told once you know what you're doing, backflushing can take about 30 minutes. Beats changing filters out on any regular basis, but that's how I see it, and it's also better for me because I get to have more pond plants!

Agree! I have a small bog that's part of my box turtle habitat -- it feeds to and from the pond. It's not large enough to completely filter the pond, plus part of it is open water for the turtles so not 100'% planted, but I can tell a world of difference in the overall pond appearance compared to before I added it. Love to watch it grow and change, and the turtles love it, too!

 

[Gordo33]

When flushing any type of water filtering system, the flow is reversed. In the instance of an upflow 'bog', water is directed downward through the gravel dislodging accumulated organic debris in the process. This debris laden water is then removed from the 'bog' by positioning a pump at the bottom of the vault thus removing this waste water. Depending on the amount of debris this flushing may require repeating until a desired clarity in the waste water is achieved.

Please confirm if I'm understanding this correctly.
In @addy1 bog build she discribed using 2 inch pipe with a capped stand pipe. A hose would be placed in the stand pipe to periodically flush debris from the PIPE
what you are a discribing is a pump located in the vault to suck water down thru the gravel and rocks and exiting the bog thereby flushing debris from the BOG.

What I've learned is that it is best done (the flushing) using TWO pumps; one in the cleanout stack, and one in a large source of water (the pond). I was told; drain (using a pump in the cleanout stack) the bog down to within a foot or so of the bottom, then force (with the other pump) a large VOLUME of water top down into the pea grave

Is it possible to evenly dispirse water over the entire bog for this to be successful . Will the water go through the bog primarily where it would enter from the top when adding the water from the pond. Having a hard time visioning the water spreading across a large surface area.

 

[Gordo33]

it's the basis of my idea to make a pre filter (at Meyer's suggestion). I'm fine tuning now and hope to have it up and running in a couple of weeks

I'm am interested in your new bog design because I had similar thoughts about a pre filter built into the bog. I would think the same way a chamber can be created under the gravel with the matrix blocks a vertical chamber can be created to house Matala pads. Let the water flow through this first and then into the hollow chamber beforing the water travels up through the gravel. It may also allow debris to settle out if the flow slows enough. I use a similiar concept for a sump that filters a 125 gal discus tank Keep me posted on your progress. I plan to start my pond renovation in mid to late April.

 

[brokensword]

Gordo;

your idea is now what Dave Jones of thePondProfessional is doing, mainly because the cost of the stackables is less re labor and easier to both install and dig up if necessary, as opposed to the large-medium-small pebble bed originally designed. That said, he did say it had to be done properly to work. What he does is place a layer of 1/4" plastic hardware cloth OVER the stackables, then puts the pea gravel over it. I'd NOT have a prefilter beneath the bog as it would be hard to get at for eventual cleaning. It would be easier to dig pea gravel and move the stackables then the stone system I have but I hope my current design will be easier still re maintenance because I can get at it without touching the bog.

If you plan on back flushing the bog, you need a large enough cleanout to house a pump.

Water TO your bog/upflow wetlands filter comes from the bottom, not the top. Backflushing is done in reverse by forcing a large volume of water through the clogged stones and to the bottom of your bog, where the pump will suck it out through the diffusion pipe.

For my bog, I had my 1-1/2" feed from the submersible pump enter a 4" drain tile pipe (AT the bottom of the bog). This drain pipe is cut with 1/4" slots and dead ends itself in the cleanout stack. I didn't need more than the one length but you can create a system that has more branches; just be sure to tie them all together at the cleanout or if necessary, have more than one cleanout. I don't know if you need more than one––I'd ask Meyer. My bog is about 4'x4'. The thing I didn't do but should have is to slope the sides so the bog is funnel shaped, with a sloping center trench for the diffusion pipe. This helps steer the backflushed particles toward your diffusion pipe (the 4" drain pipe) and then at the lowest point where you have the backflush pump.

I don't know how you backflush with only a 2" capped stack as it seems you need room for a pump at the bog's bottom for success. Someone with such a system can advise you.

If I had room in my 'pondhouse', I'd probably have created a settling chamber to exist prior to the bog, but I don't, hence I'm going to see if a drum filter will help. I'll report on its effectiveness in a month or so, after I get it finished and let it work for a bit. I'm not using flat, round filter pads but instead, a filter sock, which in my case, gives me a 30x90" surface for filtering. I'm hoping it clogs slowly and by summer's end, I can then either take it out and wash it or just throw it away since the material is relatively cheap when bought by the yard.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Please confirm if I'm understanding this correctly.
In @addy1 bog build she discribed using 2 inch pipe with a capped stand pipe. A hose would be placed in the stand pipe to periodically flush debris from the PIPE
what you are a discribing is a pump located in the vault to suck water down thru the gravel and rocks and exiting the bog thereby flushing debris from the BOG.

Correct! Accumulated material is permanently removed from the 'bog' thus the pond.

Is it possible to evenly dispirse water over the entire bog for this to be successful . Will the water go through the bog primarily where it would enter from the top when adding the water from the pond. Having a hard time visioning the water spreading across a large surface area.

No, it is not practical (it is possible) to effectively spread enough water over the entire surface of the 'bog', but this course of action is not necessary. When you hose off a filter mat, you are directing the water at a portion of the mat at any given time eventually hosing the entire surface. The same applies when flushing a 'bog'. This is why multiple flushings may be required depending on organic debris load.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What he does is place a layer of 1/4" plastic hardware cloth OVER the stackables, then puts the pea gravel over it.

This is where Dave Jones and I differ in construction standards. Utilizing any type of barrier between the matrix cubes and the gravel only unnecessarily impedes the water flow and because the porosity of this barrier must be smaller than the pea gravel will be the first place that any debris accumulation will start. I use no barrier instead replacing the pea gravel with a larger size such as Potato Rock, Egg Rock, etc. Little in the way of SSA is lost and ample support is still provided to any plants.

 

[Gordo33]

koi sites... You have to remember that most of these folks have a totally different attitude toward what they view as a pond. For their koi, they go to elaborate lengths to maintain a pristine environment -- but then, too, some of them have very expensive fish, so..

I get this because I have discus fish which are expensive. I have a much more elaborate filtering system compared to my Angel fish tank. Like dedicated koi ponds the goal of the discus tank is pristine conditions by minimizing the amount of time poop stays in the water column. But for the angels I do make sure all parameters are where they need to be so the fish don't just survive but THRIVE.
My goal is to do the same for the hybrid pond I plan without spending thousands on equipment

 

[brokensword]

This is where Dave Jones and I differ in construction standards. Utilizing any type of barrier between the matrix cubes and the gravel only unnecessarily impedes the water flow and because the porosity of this barrier must be smaller than the pea gravel will be the first place that any debris accumulation will start. I use no barrier instead replacing the pea gravel with a larger size such as Potato Rock, Egg Rock, etc. Little in the way of SSA is lost and ample support is still provided to any plants.

I understand, Meyer; I think Dave is doing this primarily for a reduction in labor cost as well as ease of installation/dismantling. Easier for him to lug plastic cubes and plastic cloth than deal with the secondary rock layer. I still like the original design as I too can see how the hardware cloth would be the first to collect organic buildup. But which would be easier to backflush; the intermediate rock layer approach or the plastic cloth? I know I'd have been a lot happier lifting and cleaning the cloth rather than all the hand-mashing I did with the rock, but I hope to not do either in the future with a better idea of backflushing now.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I understand, Meyer; I think Dave is doing this primarily for a reduction in labor cost as well as ease of installation/dismantling. Easier for him to lug plastic cubes and plastic cloth than deal with the secondary rock layer. I still like the original design as I too can see how the hardware cloth would be the first to collect organic buildup. But which would be easier to backflush; the intermediate rock layer approach or the plastic cloth? I know I'd have been a lot happier lifting and cleaning the cloth rather than all the hand-mashing I did with the rock, but I hope to not do either in the future with a better idea of backflushing now.

I think that maybe I wasn't clear in my comment. I do not use landscape fabric when matrix cubes are used. And I certainly would not use landscape fabric when constructing using the classical method of different sizes of stone. A layer of landscaper fabric laid across the top of the matrix blocks will impede the water flow when first installed and even moreso in the future as it clogs.
Using the larger gravel,as I indicated, eliminates the problem of the gravel falling through the matrix cube to the floor of the 'bog', yet very little is lost in surface area and no negative impact on plant support will be seen.

 

[Gordo33]

Honestly for your purposes I would opt for the phyto-filter as the plants are the real workhorses here

My plan is to include plants for he reason you stated.
The matrix cube is 9.5"h. If the bogs depth is 18" how would stack the remaining 8.5"?
@brokensword mentioned shaping the bottom of the bog like a funnel with the distribution pipe lying in a trench. Is this the correct way to shape the bog?
What are your thoughts on the pipe entering the bog through the liner instead of over the top and then running down to the distribution pipe(s)?
Current plans are for a 4 ft wide bog with one distribution pipe . At what width would you add a second distribution pipe?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

My plan is to include plants for he reason you stated.
The matrix cube is 9.5"h. If the bogs depth is 18" how would stack the remaining 8.5"?
@brokensword mentioned shaping the bottom of the bog like a funnel with the distribution pipe lying in a trench. Is this the correct way to shape the bog?
What are your thoughts on the pipe entering the bog through the liner instead of over the top and then running down to the distribution pipe(s)?
Current plans are for a 4 ft wide bog with one distribution pipe . At what width would you add a second distribution pipe?

Matrix cubes can be supported by strategically placed 4x4x4 concrete blocks. This will leave 4.5 inches. A 4" layer of Egg (Potato) rock and you are set.

The centipede or diffuser pipe definitely needs to be countersunk into the bottom of the 'bog' and the bottom of the 'bog' needs to have a slight downward slope towards center.

One pipe should be sufficient for this size 'bog' when using matrix cubes.

 

[brokensword]

I think that maybe I wasn't clear in my comment. I do not use landscape fabric when matrix cubes are used. And I certainly would not use landscape fabric when constructing using the classical method of different sizes of stone. A layer of landscaper fabric laid across the top of the matrix blocks will impede the water flow when first installed and even moreso in the future as it clogs.
Using the larger gravel,as I indicated, eliminates the problem of the gravel falling through the matrix cube to the floor of the 'bog', yet very little is lost in surface area and no negative impact on plant support will be seen.

Meyer; Dave isn't using landscape fabric but 1/4-3/8" plastic hardware cloth; holes just small enough so the pea gravel stays on the top. I figure it's almost the same size as pea gravel so how much of a barrier could it prove to be? Would any organics clog there any faster/harder than on the pea gravel? I think I'd opt for this only because digging the mid-size rocks was so strenuous, but now I'm curious to know the comparison re maintenance.

Michael

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyer; Dave isn't using landscape fabric but 1/4-3/8" plastic hardware cloth; holes just small enough so the pea gravel stays on the top. I figure it's almost the same size as pea gravel so how much of a barrier could it prove to be? Would any organics clog there any faster/harder than on the pea gravel? I think I'd opt for this only because digging the mid-size rocks was so strenuous, but now I'm curious to know the comparison re maintenance.

Michael

OK. Sorry, I didn't realize that it was plastic hardware cloth. Yes, that will work, but I still prefer Egg Rock over pea gravel. World of difference in overall maintenance.

 

[brokensword]

Meyer; do you think the egg rock (I'm assuming similar to my 2" cobbles) better than the pea gravel? Specifically why? I would think the pea gravel better because of more surface area and even if I have to back flush, would think the smaller gravel would keep the water column cleaner. I guess I say this because it was relatively easy to dig/rake through the pea gravel but the larger stone was a nightmare in that I was forced to remove it mainly by hand.