6 fish died in last month

[Meyer Jordan]

View attachment 80934
This is the shot that raises a red flag of warning in me, it gives you an idea of the depth of the detritus Meyer it is certainly alot deeper than was previously said there looks to be inches of it ..........Rach said what....... half a centimeter..


Dave

This appears to me to be a photo of the floating vegetation, which also appears stressed.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You say Diagnosing a disease long distance based on photo's and scant information is pure folly ?
Meyer alot of the people on GPf weve helped since 2012 will tell you different ....normally the information we get is good/
I agree koi are put in earthen ponds for growth but after leaving Japan or a dealership that has growing on ponds thats the last they will see of them , we bring them on adding clay instead of having them swim in mud ponds where we couldnt really see them.
Could you show me the report about koi being an invasive specie in the UK its the first ime weve heard that,but isnt that true of many species that are introduced your making Goldfish and koi out to be master criminals see Cefas Defra report UK into introduced many historically into the UK :-

http://www.cefas.defra.gov.uk/our-s...mation/freshwater-fisheries/species-list.aspx

I know about them being banned in all but two states in Austrailia and totally in NewZealand, however Goldfish are still allowed according to a GPF member who lives in NewZealand.
I didnt know about Maine having banned them, I know of a man made lake in Cornwall that has them as I gave its owner some of my larger koi last year[the lake is on private property,Angling is banned from it and more importantly with no other water souces they could escape too] so I dont feel as though I've broke any laws nor helped in spreading this species.
Species invasion is rife in the UK[pet trade] red eared sliders, snapping turtles American crayfish grey Squirels [hoticultural trade] NewZealand Preditory flat worms Termites then we need look at trees shrubs and plants, Aquatic plants need I go on as man is the culprit not the species that has taken up home often in antiquty, all good koi books comment on the spread of Carp from Asia to Europe used as food often to be found in the grounds of religious retreates as a food sourse for the Monks therin.
The worlds biggest invasive Species to the cost of any and all species "MAN"....

Koi are blamed by the angling fraternity for spreading KHV but the truth is it has never been proven as no koi have been caught.and bad tackle practice bio-security wise along with the importaton of monster carp from french fishing lakes makes that the likeliest two vectors for its spread through the UK's angling lakes.
Any member of the BKKS practices bio-security specifically designed to stop KHV and it is concidered good practice to disinfect our oown nets after use.
.

Dave

Dave, you misread my comment. I said "Carp, including Koi, and Goldfish are listed as either nuisance or invasive species in many countries including Great Britain."
According to this site common carp (Cyprinus carpio) and Goldfish are considered non-native species in the UK. The terms non-native and nuisance are used quite often interchangeably in specie classification. Additionally, an introduced specie may also be considered invasive i.e. the Asian carp in the U.S.
http://www.nonnativespecies.org/home/index.cfm

We are in complete agreement on the all time No,1 invasive specie......MAN!

 

[Rach]

Oh gosh I am not sure I should say anymore. I feel quite threatened with repeated mention of the RSPCA.

There have been no more deaths.
I do have blanket weed and since putting in a chemical from Hills to break it up and then another one to dissolve it I have had this brown stuff floating. this lasted about 2/3 weeks, not a lot of it now. And I am just leaving it now.
I do want a natural pond, i do not have Koi.
The sediment on the bottom I thought was ok as there are lots of shrimp in it and when I started to remove what little there was I was removing the shrimp/damaging them.
My uncle has had Ponds for years. He came round, said nothing wrong with it and tom,eave it. If I wanted frogs then they like mud.
I remember as a child we only cleaned our pond out once a year and found 30 or more frogs/toads, not sure which in our very small pond. All lived hPpily with the fish.
My neighbour has given me the majority of the fish, about 6 in September, I bought 3 small, still have these and I think 5 in Jan/February then 6 end of March.
I have 13 left and think that is plenty. I have told him no more.
I took the water in to be tested and it was a strip they used. Said the water was
Perfect, they did it for free, do not know what was tested,
I have had a friend who had a ammonia test (he has a living coral, breeds it etc so is very knowledgable. He tested the water and said all ok. He looked around the pond,stream and said doing nothing wrong. Said the stream was perfect for oxygenating the water as it very shallow moving over pieces of slate.
He thinks the same that either something has blown into the pond and killed off the weak ones. Or one of the ones introduced in .jan/February was poorly and infected the weak.
As I want a natural/Eco system pond, no idea what the proper term is, I just want a wild,life pond as we call it, with fish, frogs etc.
I have had some frogs prawn and the tadpoles are wriggling away and seem to live on the shelves in the detritus (think that is what you are calling what is on the bottom and clinging to wires(pond under water lights/pump) when I scoop this up in the net, the detritus it is hardly anything, looks a lot more in the water. Weird stuff.

Meyer re your point of soil in the bottom, I will need to look this up and what an ecosystem pond is.

I know you both mean well and want the same result but do feel rather intimidated by continued reference to the 2010 Cruelty Law bill.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thanks for the response, Rach. I was afraid that you had left us.
The additional information does help immensely in forming a mental picture of the inner workings of your pond.
Are you sure that you have shrimp. Could they not be another crustacean-like specie, for example Water Fleas?
Tadpole are great for cleaning up a pond as they are primarily feed on detritus.
I do have question that was of interest to me. What is the vegetation that is shown in the photos floating in the pond? There seems to be a considerable amount.

 

[addy1]

Oh gosh I am not sure I should say anymore. I feel quite threatened with repeated mention of the RSPCA

We won't turn you in!

I have lost fish, some my mistakes, some who knows. My pond is similar to yours built for fish, frogs, critters, plants, what moves in gets to live in it. I clean once to twice a year mainly to remove the falling leaves, this time of year the thousands of maple seeds flying in and apple blossoms, ow I leave it alone. Just net the bottom and spend time to go through what I pull out and save everything my human eyes can see. I won't remove string algae if it appears, to many little things live in it.

If a fish or two die I attempt to figure out why, but sometimes there is no reason. Water tests are always perfect. I do not have koi, just have gf and shubunkins.

We ponders do our best to make a perfect living place for them, as perfect as each of us can do.

 

[Lisak1]

You're safe here Rach. If your intentions were anything but the best you surely wouldn't be here asking for advice. We are all learning as we go along with our ponds and addy is right - sometimes fish die and you really don't know why. Or something malfunctions that is beyond your control. Just keep asking questions and you'll soon find yourself a confident pond owner. Lots of people here have been ponding for 20+ years and they are all here to share their knowledge and wisdom!

 

[topofthehill1]

I just briefly read this thread but just a few general observations I had. I would recommend netting some of that stuff out. If it has a terrible smell I would net the leaves and debris out more often. I suspect your pump may be undersized for your pond.

The other observation I have that the others haven't mentioned is sometimes at this time of year my female goldfish have stranded themselves in near death position trying to avoid spawning with the males. The often end up in plants unable to move. If all your water parameters are ok I would consider this a possibility. The males can chase the females until they are exhausted or trapped.

 

[addy1]

My little stream ponds, (uncleaned for ummmmmmmmmmmmmm a while...........) If I disturb the bottom they do smell. But no fish, just snails, tads, frogs, critters. And the plants LOVE those little ponds. They are now part of my plant filter system. No real reason to clean them.

When I pull the stuff out of the ponds with fish, it just smells like a pond, no hold the nose smell.

 

[Rach]

Hello all, thanks very much for your support and advice. I did think of leaving and this has helped together with a private message.

Few answers, the floating plant on top is mixture of parrots feather and a not known. My uncle gave me both out of his pond and I have only identified the one. Not a lot left now as did spend days stripping the blanket weed out of it, realising that was a waste of time as it just returned!!! Yeh we learn by our mistakes!
I will attach some photos just took to see if anyone has any ideas.

The pump, well I hope it is not undersized as I took specific measurements to Hills and they advised on the pump/filter system and I bought it from them.

I say shrimp as that is what, guess what, my uncle told me they were! I did go pond dipping last night and caught few other critters which were different to what I call shrimp! Will look one up actually on the internet see if I can remember what they look like.

Read up on ecosystem last night.
Do I need to add some soil, if so garden soil ok?
I can see the liner in a lot of places, there is hardly any thickness of ,stuff at the on the shelves( of which I have many!

 

[addy1]

Do I need to add some soil, if so garden soil ok?

I would not add any soil, any liner showing will get covered up with algae over time. I plant my lilies etc in kitty litter that has no additives, it is pure clay, in pots.

No clue on the plant, Nice parrots feather. Love the dog!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Hello all, thanks very much for your support and advice. I did think of leaving and this has helped together with a private message.

Few answers, the floating plant on top is mixture of parrots feather and a not known. My uncle gave me both out of his pond and I have only identified the one. Not a lot left now as did spend days stripping the blanket weed out of it, realising that was a waste of time as it just returned!!! Yeh we learn by our mistakes!
I will attach some photos just took to see if anyone has any ideas.

The pump, well I hope it is not undersized as I took specific measurements to Hills and they advised on the pump/filter system and I bought it from them.

I say shrimp as that is what, guess what, my uncle told me they were! I did go pond dipping last night and caught few other critters which were different to what I call shrimp! Will look one up actually on the internet see if I can remember what they look like.

Read up on ecosystem last night.
Do I need to add some soil, if so garden soil ok?
I can see the liner in a lot of places, there is hardly any thickness of ,stuff at the on the shelves( of which I have many! View attachment 81011View attachment 81012

No need to add soil, Rach. My reference to soil was in comparing a true natural pond with a constructed eco-system pond. Soil (and supplemental biofiltration) is normally the only true differences between the functionality of the two.

 

[Rach]

Ok thanks for the clarification. Have searched on Internet for the other plant but can't find anything that looks like it.

Wish the parrots feather would hurry and flesh out! So,pretty when it does.