Yet more green water...

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

The above posts suggest that you are going to make one. I’m proud of you finally catching on to the importance. Changing a filter once a month? Not if you have a bog.

Once a month quick cleaning doesn't bother me too much, but the pea soup and being unable to see more than 4 inches deep does...

Still at the design phase and dreaming of clear (or at least clearer) water so I can enjoy my upside down tank feature even more Will cleaner water result in faster growing fish? They (goldfish, shubunkin, comet) are growing slowly.

 

[brokensword]

Once a month quick cleaning doesn't bother me too much, but the pea soup and being unable to see more than 4 inches deep does...

Still at the design phase and dreaming of clear (or at least clearer) water so I can enjoy my upside down tank feature even more Will cleaner water result in faster growing fish? They (goldfish, shubunkin, comet) are growing slowly.

the fish don't mind the free-floating algae and no, neither clearer water nor green will affect growth as long as the algae is taking care of the over-abundance of nutrients in the water column. It's us ponders that want clear water. In Japan, they grow their fish in mud ponds; you can use your imagination re viewing ability and you'll be close!

Goldfish don't grow as fast as koi, which is a good thing for most ponders as it helps keep the bioload growth at a slower rate, giving you time to address issues. With koi, it can happen a lot faster and overwhelm many newbies. I found most of my goldfish take their time growing; I have most in the 8" area and that's after 7-8 years. Too, if you feed a lot, that helps them grow faster but it also could be contributing to the excess algae growth. I only feed once a day, a handful at a time until everyone has some.

I don't know if this was addressed yet, but do you have a decent amount of debris on the pond bottom? If so, I'd take a net and SLOWLY get it all out. It will help keep the algae down, too.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

do you have a decent amount of debris on the pond bottom?

A LOT of debris. The bottom has accumulated sludge for years

I need to do more raking for sure (without catching the salamanders that may live on the bottom - I know there are at least 2 baby salamanders in the pond, possibly more).

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Here is my revised idea, outside bog, resting close to the wall, about 6' - 8' long by 2'. Spillway would need to be extended a bit so I still have some room to crawl around for maintenance. Planting area would be outside netting.

TBD what to build the box from. Most likely wood frame with pond liner.

 

[brokensword]

Here is my revised idea, outside bog, resting close to the wall, about 6' - 8' long by 2'. Spillway would need to be extended a bit so I still have some room to crawl around for maintenance. Planting area would be outside netting.

TBD what to build the box from. Most likely wood frame with pond liner.

View attachment 143291

that looks like it would work well; IF you can, incorporate at least 4" for facia to cover the liner as it hangs down into the pond. You could plan for less space if you used something like Rock on a Roll (google it) as an option. With your more modern look, you could consider stone tiling as you have on the patio/walkway area. Other options are to grow some plants (such as creeping jenny) at the very spill and it'll work it's way down toward the pond like vining. I've done this on my waterfall and it took about a year to grow in such that it looks naturalized. There's other options; just do some googling and see what fits your vision.

And if you made this bog tall enough so you could reach the top from the back wall level, you could make it deeper if you needed the volume. I'd mock it up both ways and see which looks best to you. The plants (if you choose such a type) can grow tall and to the top of your wall, too. Thinning the low growing ones would be a bit tricky (I'm assuming they'd be nearest the spill wall) so consider being able to take some sort of plank from pond side to the bog side, something you could then just walk on and make getting at the area easier. I do something similar in the winter when I put up my winter tent; boards go across so I can walk anywhere, setting up the A frame and plastic sheeting. In the spring, I take it all down. In your case, you just need an access that's easy to set up and take down. A couple of 2x10s would suffice.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

that looks like it would work well; IF you can, incorporate at least 4" for facia to cover the liner as it hangs down into the pond. You could plan for less space if you used something like Rock on a Roll (google it) as an option. With your more modern look, you could consider stone tiling as you have on the patio/walkway area. Other options are to grow some plants (such as creeping jenny) at the very spill and it'll work it's way down toward the pond like vining. I've done this on my waterfall and it took about a year to grow in such that it looks naturalized. There's other options; just do some googling and see what fits your vision.

And if you made this bog tall enough so you could reach the top from the back wall level, you could make it deeper if you needed the volume. I'd mock it up both ways and see which looks best to you. The plants (if you choose such a type) can grow tall and to the top of your wall, too. Thinning the low growing ones would be a bit tricky (I'm assuming they'd be nearest the spill wall) so consider being able to take some sort of plank from pond side to the bog side, something you could then just walk on and make getting at the area easier. I do something similar in the winter when I put up my winter tent; boards go across so I can walk anywhere, setting up the A frame and plastic sheeting. In the spring, I take it all down. In your case, you just need an access that's easy to set up and take down. A couple of 2x10s would suffice.

Darn, there is so much mind boggling good advice on this website. I hadn't thought too much about access to trim the plants. I didn't know about Rock on a Roll too, seems like a smart idea.

In any event, I need to do more pondering on that project to make sure it holds water. So I am floating many ideas. Ok, enough puns for today...

Another Q: what about this for a pond box? Could be sitting in the middle of the pond on cinder blocks. Waterfalls on 4 sides.

Marshalltown 11165 60in x 32in x 11in Mortar Box

The MARSHALLTOWN 60" x 32" x 11" Mortar Box is constructed with extra high density, UV stabilized polyethylene. It is durable, but lightweight, and mortar will not stick to it. This mortar box is not affected by heat, cold, rust, plaster, mortar, or water

www.jimslimstools.com

Still haven't decided on the design yet. All options open.

 

[addy1]

I have one of those, been thrown around and used for years. Still in great shape, tough.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Then on top of that mortar box I could add a wood frame (two by sixes or something) to raise the walls, add cover the frame with pond liner.

I bet the liner should go all the way to the bottom?

Rough drawing:

 

[brokensword]

Then on top of that mortar box I could add a wood frame (two by sixes or something) to raise the walls, add cover the frame with pond liner.

I bet the liner should go all the way to the bottom?

Rough drawing:

View attachment 143349

it would work but I'd steer away from this idea for one reason; you LOSE valuable pond visability. That is, anything/fish that goes beneath you can't see. It's like having too many water lilies; some are nice--a necessary function of shade and flowers--but if half or more of your surface is covered, you have to wait for anything to emerge. I think the outside-of-the pond bog idea will treat you better in the long run.

As an idea for getting at your plants to thin; you can build your box against that wall and once you have the gravel in, place some long, narrow, approx 1-2" thick sandstone pieces near but not on the edge. You then use this 'path' for walking on to get at thinning the plants. It's what I did. Mine also double as 'channel' makers for the outpour over the facia wall.

Doing the above then gives you more volume+surface area for your bog (based on your pics, imo).

IF you were to go the way of the mortar box, you would NOT need any liner (or wood walls) as the water can spill over the sides and if you wanted one particular area, you cut that side down an inch or so and voila! instant waterfall/cascade. I did something like your pic (NOT in the pond, but above and outside my winter turtle pool system) as an axuiliary bog; just pea stone over a pvc manifold with slits, and a small pump from the turtle pool.

 

[GBBUDD]

1. do not build this up on cinderblocks if you want to say good by to green water then make the bog the entire depth.
2. Make the bog the full length of the pond . making it even a couple feet larger then the pond would add some interest.
3. the more pea stone the bigger the bog the more surface area. the more room for plants and the deeper will keep the roots from clogging your pipes.

I would remove the retaining wall in the back and build it forward make the bog recess into the small lift in the hill, the bog can have plants like canna that are stunning and can add so much to a yard.

don't build the pond a third time i am a firm believer in over filtering better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

it would work but I'd steer away from this idea for one reason; you LOSE valuable pond visibility. That is, anything/fish that goes beneath you can't see. It's like having too many water lilies; some are nice--a necessary function of shade and flowers--but if half or more of your surface is covered, you have to wait for anything to emerge. I think the outside-of-the pond bog idea will treat you better in the long run.

As an idea for getting at your plants to thin; you can build your box against that wall and once you have the gravel in, place some long, narrow, approx 1-2" thick sandstone pieces near but not on the edge. You then use this 'path' for walking on to get at thinning the plants. It's what I did. Mine also double as 'channel' makers for the outpour over the facia wall.

Doing the above then gives you more volume+surface area for your bog (based on your pics, imo).

IF you were to go the way of the mortar box, you would NOT need any liner (or wood walls) as the water can spill over the sides and if you wanted one particular area, you cut that side down an inch or so and voila! instant waterfall/cascade. I did something like your pic (NOT in the pond, but above and outside my winter turtle pool system) as an axuiliary bog; just pea stone over a pvc manifold with slits, and a small pump from the turtle pool.

I like the box against the wall but there is this annoying netting at 21" from the back wall

Or, the box could rest inside the netting and a bit overlapping the pond like this found on Pinterest. Looks like they built their box with 4x4s. A little loss of visibility on the pond though.

Is there a better way than netting? It keeps the hawks at bay however blocks the good guys like humming birds or dragon flies.

 

[GBBUDD]

Hawks aren't the problem unless your protecting frogs. They don't go fishing very often though if a fish sits at the surface long enough he may become dinner.
The other idea to fish protection is if you have a tight area where there's a tight or limited space for the birds to fly away. Osprey eagles herons even egrets they can all get in tight areas but the ALL need a decent runway / flight patch to fly away . I have the pond surrounded on two sides with buildings . My house and my garage . With a tall 8 foot hedge to the third sidearm the fourth has a 14 foot high golf net so it is a wall and not covering the pond . Again the idea is removing the flight patch for them to be able to fly away .

 

[brokensword]

I like the box against the wall but there is this annoying netting at 21" from the back wall

Or, the box could rest inside the netting and a bit overlapping the pond like this found on Pinterest. Looks like they built their box with 4x4s. A little loss of visibility on the pond though.

Is there a better way than netting? It keeps the hawks at bay however blocks the good guys like humming birds or dragon flies.

View attachment 143363

Re the net; you can use 4" open weave (same as addy and j.w use on their pond) and the lil birds and frogs and dragonflies and mice and chipmunks and whatnot can get in and out. You can either reposition the backside of the net to cover the bog or not--it probably isn't necessary if you have the pond proper covered.

With your pond as per your pics, I'd lean toward using the same stone as what you have on the patio, or something that goes with your more modern style. That said, tis your pond!!

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Re the net; you can use 4" open weave (same as addy and j.w use on their pond) and the lil birds and frogs and dragonflies and mice and chipmunks and whatnot can get in and out. You can either reposition the backside of the net to cover the bog or not--it probably isn't necessary if you have the pond proper covered.

With your pond as per your pics, I'd lean toward using the same stone as what you have on the patio, or something that goes with your more modern style. That said, tis your pond!!

Speaking of the 4" open weave, where do I find this? do you have a web link? I don't plan to use stone for the box as the surroundings of the pond are uneven (the paving guys did a poor job). I am thinking cover it with rock on a roll.

That said, tis your pond!!

Ah, choices, choices... I'll try modelling everything in 3D to see how it looks. BlocksCad3d is awesome.

Thanks!

 

[brokensword]

Speaking of the 4" open weave, where do I find this? do you have a web link? I don't plan to use stone for the box as the surroundings of the pond are uneven (the paving guys did a poor job). I am thinking cover it with rock on a roll.



Ah, choices, choices... I'll try modelling everything in 3D to see how it looks. BlocksCad3d is awesome.

Thanks!

I'll channel the Boss; she's got the link. Or j.w

@addy1 and @j.w ; can ya help a fellow ponder out??? I never kept your net links.