Yet another newb pond construction thread

[Gemma]

Hello and welcome @Jeremydmeyer76!

Just one question: there are basically 2 different kind of koi ponds — one is not better than the other — they are just different. When selecting equipment, and asking for advice, one should decide which type of pond you want.

One is the DKP or dedicated koi pond. These ponds have a lot of filtering going on (sieves, collection chambers, moving beds, bottom drains...). Most people with a DKP don’t have plants in their ponds. They keep their water pristine and, OMG, if you mention algae, it’s time to get out the chemicals. Yes, they keep their ponds balanced with chemicals (well, maybe not all of them, but you get the idea — that does sound harsh, but it’s just a different philosophy).

Then there is the garden pond, like most of us have. Most have a bog-type filter, or at least have plants in the pond. The philosophy with this group is to maintain a healthy pond through adequate filtration, minimizing fish load, sparse (if any) feeding, and letting Mother Nature keep the pond balanced — by using plants. For the most part, the only chemicals we recommend is a dechlorinator when adding water. For example, we “control” algae by recognizing that it is a symptom of a problem, and it is not the problem itself, so we take a more common sense approach.

Just my 2 cents.

...and then there's me, who couldn't get either one right so both my ponds ended up being Hybrids ( somewhat in between a DKP and a GP)

 

[Jeremydmeyer76]

Hello and welcome @Jeremydmeyer76!

Just one question: there are basically 2 different kind of koi ponds — one is not better than the other — they are just different. When selecting equipment, and asking for advice, one should decide which type of pond you want.

One is the DKP or dedicated koi pond. These ponds have a lot of filtering going on (sieves, collection chambers, moving beds, bottom drains...). Most people with a DKP don’t have plants in their ponds. They keep their water pristine and, OMG, if you mention algae, it’s time to get out the chemicals. Yes, they keep their ponds balanced with chemicals (well, maybe not all of them, but you get the idea — that does sound harsh, but it’s just a different philosophy).

Then there is the garden pond, like most of us have. Most have a bog-type filter, or at least have plants in the pond. The philosophy with this group is to maintain a healthy pond through adequate filtration, minimizing fish load, sparse (if any) feeding, and letting Mother Nature keep the pond balanced — by using plants. For the most part, the only chemicals we recommend is a dechlorinator when adding water. For example, we “control” algae by recognizing that it is a symptom of a problem, and it is not the problem itself, so we take a more common sense approach.

Just my 2 cents.

Ahhhhhh, that makes sense. I should have read more posts before posting LOL!

This is similar to the saltwater aquarium hobby where you have people who have just fish and rock vs. those who do full blown reef aquariums.

What I've found from that hobby is that there is a way to have it both ways you just have to be selective on equipment and livestock choices.

I am building a koi pond using filtration equipment built for koi ponds. I also very much appreciate the beauty of an all natural ecosystem. My end goal is to have that beautiful natural feels but to also be able to keep healthy livestock and pristine water without the use of chemicals besides the aforementioned "dechlor".

Before starting this project I watched several hundred YouTube videos from guys like Greg Whitstock, Jaak at Atlantis, Professor Ed, The Pond Digger and the other "pros".

I even called my local Aquascape dealer but had sticker shock when I mentioned what I wanted and how much it would cost. I believe for everything I wanted was right around $40k but that included professional installation. I knew that going that route was going to yield an amazing looking water feature there was just no way I could justify spending that much. Besides, I like playing in the dirt, doing plumbing, and electrical. That's when I decided I could build a pond myself.

I then found an independent pond store owner that is close by that offered to do a consultation. He did ask me right what kind of pond I wanted. I wanted a natural eco system but being I have never kept koi, I knew it would be just a matter of time before I would be adding koi to my system.

He designed the pond and system for me and in return I purchased the equipment for it to run from him and am doing all the labor myself.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Jeremydmeyer76]

...and then there's me, who couldn't get either one right so both my ponds ended up being Hybrids ( somewhat in between a DKP and a GP)View attachment 134673

This is the direction I'm heading as well. Where theres a will, theres a way.

 

[poconojoe]

Some good points brought up here.
I'm also an advocate of letting my pond continue in a complete natural form.
I never add any chemicals or additives. No store bought beneficial bacteria is necessary in my opinion. It will occur naturally, no need to waste money on that.
After adding the bog, there isn't really much I do to maintain my pond.
I'm able to enjoy it much more since I don't have to clean filter pads or backwash filters.

 

[Gemma]

This is the direction I'm heading as well. Where theres a will, theres a way.

I'm glad you understood it wasn't by mistake that I ended up with hybrids.
I built the ponds separating the plants from the fish, to avoid having to go through catching and rehoming fry

 

[Gemma]

Some good points brought up here.
I'm also an advocate of letting my pond continue in a complete natural form.
I never add any chemicals or additives. No store bought beneficial bacteria is necessary in my opinion. It will occur naturally, no need to waste money on that.
After adding the bog, there isn't really much I do to maintain my pond.
I'm able to enjoy it much more since I don't have to clean filter pads or backwash filters.

I don't put anything in my ponds either, I know my supplier hates me for this

 

[Jeremydmeyer76]

Some good points brought up here.
I'm also an advocate of letting my pond continue in a complete natural form.
I never add any chemicals or additives. No store bought beneficial bacteria is necessary in my opinion. It will occur naturally, no need to waste money on that.
After adding the bog, there isn't really much I do to maintain my pond.
I'm able to enjoy it much more since I don't have to clean filter pads or backwash filters.

I don't put anything in my ponds either, I know my supplier hates me for this

I'll do my best to support my local pond store but I don't plan on buying any snake oil.

 

[j.w]

@Jeremydmeyer76
Lots of good info above.

 

[Jeremydmeyer76]

So....about this berm.

One of the most stressful aspects of this entire build is waterfall design and construction. My goal is to mimic nature. The problem is the rest of my backyard is relatively flat and is just grass.

It's hard to visualize how a waterfall would naturally come out of a pile of dirt and flow back into a body of water.

I have been watching YouTube videos for a month straight and made a playlist of some of the best and most educational waterfall/stream videos I found. It can be found here:

Techniques for Building Natural Waterfalls

This playlist is compilation of some of the best videos I have found to help aid in building waterfalls and streams that mimic nature.

www.youtube.com

To me, the look of a waterfall can either make or break a water feature. It needs to be proportional to the surrounding landscape and follow the rules of nature in order to avoid looking man made.

Some of the most critical things I've learned over the last few weeks about waterfall construction are:

- "Be the water", This means understand where it will flow once it leaves the outlet. Think about what you see in a natural stream and how it always travels in the path of least resistance.

- Each cascade almost always consists of 2 framing stones and a weir stone in between. In nature a waterfall is formed by water eroding the soil away and leaving the rocks behind.

- Let the stones tell you where they need to go. As a complete rookie I wanted to have an exact idea of what my waterfall will look like. It turns out it doesn't work like that. You can't plan how the waterfall will look until you have the stones. I've learned you can only plan the path and the number of drops, the rest is up to the stones you have to work with.

- Don't be afraid to change. This is especially true when placing boulders. If you find a boulder that doesn't look right no matter which way you twist and turn it, move on. Throw it back on the pile and find one that works.

- During construction take the time to stand back and look from different vantage points. What looks amazing from one angle may not look right at all from somewhere else.

- Start at the bottom and build your way up.

These are just a few things I've noted in my research. It is such an amazing art form that takes years to master. I'm not going to lie and say I'm not nervous about building my own but I think with these concepts in mind the end result will look much more natural and appealing to the eye.

One of the best articles I've found on waterfall construction is this one:

Tips for Building an Amazing Waterfall!

Not only do waterfalls provide melodious tunes for the garden, but they provide necessary aeration to keep your ecosystem pond functioning and looking its best.

www.aquascapeinc.com

Even armed with all this in mind I'm still super nervous about my waterfall looking like a man made staircase going down a volcano.

 

[Lisak1]

You've got the basics down. Avoiding the "volcano" look is key in my mind. Remember that you don't need height to build falls. You can build an effective waterfall that drops no more than a foot from top to bottom - just add some length by twisting and turning it a bit. Another key to me is concealing where the water comes from. You can do that by turning the source water at a 45 degree angle from the viewing angle if that makes sense. I'm not familiar with the Helix equipment - is one of the things you mentioned a biofalls? If so, then turn your biofalls so you aren't looking straight at it from your most likely viewing spot, but rather viewing it from the side. That's your first "turn". Does that make sense?

Alternatively, you can build retention behind and around a waterfall berm so it looks more flat from the front with the height at the back.

 

[TheFishGuy]

I already have a place in mind. Baby steps...

more than I have and I am rocking in my pond right now

 

[TheFishGuy]

I have lots of experience with aquariums, ponds are definitely a different animal but the science is the same just on a larger scale.

Pond construction however...the amount of forethought and planning is a struggle.

I have almost given up with freshwater aquariums, they are just so hard to get right, ponds are so much easier.

saltwater is just so much easier to make look nice and function well, although the same probably couldn't be said with a saltwater pond.....

 

[Lisak1]

I'm still super nervous about my waterfall looking like a man made staircase going down a volcano.

I was going to add - the fact that you can SEE that man made staircase going down a volcano is step one. Step two is to remember that the rocks form the waterfall - not the ground. Sometimes we see people trying to carve a waterfall out of the dirt and then fill it in with rocks. The group provides the foundation to hold the rocks. The rocks create the shape.

 

[brokensword]

While I may not have what most here consider a "bog" I do have 2 very wide, low flow, shallow shelves that will be heavily planted. These are considered "bog" areas. They were suggested by my local pond supply store who designed the pond and calculated filter and pump size. I have already purchased the equipment so if I were to remove the "internal bog" areas it adds more volume to the pond and my equipment is longer adequate.

Bog, wetland filter, whatever you want to call it is just an area of low flow for high demand nutrient loving plants to grow. The area I have for that just happens to be in the pond.

There's a misconception here; what you're going for is truly a 'bog'. What most of us have are properly called 'upflow wetland filters'. There's a distinct difference. So, when you're advised to 'do a bog', what is really meant is 'upflow wetlands filter'. A true bog is a large wide area OVER which water flows. It's effective as a filter BECAUSE it's so large. It needs to to get a large surface area for the colonization of the beneficial bacteria. What you're going to do is inadequate for this purpose. Hence, upflow wetlands. With this system, there's a lot more area via volume to get the bio portion working for you. This type of filter is not meant to be a mechanical filter and it's mainly for establishing a worthy nitrogen cycle. The plants do their part by taking up what the bacteria leave behind; nitrates. What is going to happen in your system is not a lot of denitrification and a build up on the surface of your 'bog' area because over time, the substrate will get clogged. An upflow wetland filter FORCES water up through and past all the gravel/bacteria. You won't get this with your system. Clogging will only occur if you force too much water through the gravel and are allowing solids to get into your pump system (your pump should be OFF the bottom 12" or so, at least) or if your upflow wetland filter is too small for the amount of water you're pushing.

If you're set on keeping your low areas (bog), I'd find a way to pump water UNDER your substrate and cordon off this bog area from the rest of the pond, mimicking what I outlined above. Or just build a upflow wetland filter (see why we use 'bog'? Takes too long to type all the time!) proper the first time around. You'll not regret it. If you look at my more recent vids showing my pond from an underwater view, you'll see the far side of the pond, which is over 14' away. That's how clear you can make the water.

Hope this helps.

 

[brokensword]

So....about this berm.

One of the most stressful aspects of this entire build is waterfall design and construction. My goal is to mimic nature. The problem is the rest of my backyard is relatively flat and is just grass.

It's hard to visualize how a waterfall would naturally come out of a pile of dirt and flow back into a body of water.




Even armed with all this in mind I'm still super nervous about my waterfall looking like a man made staircase going down a volcano.

What you CAN do is extend the area behind/sideways where you want your watefall, to give a more gentle, falling slope. In essence, you'll be re-landscaping the yard to incorporate your new water feature. Think of it as your pond garden and out of the middle of it, some water pours and falls. The landscaping around it will make or break whether you have a 'volcano' or not, imo. Using the same rocks you're planning for your pond as part of this new extended garden, will tie it all together.