stroppy
stroppy
thing is mines only small buck, i hate to think what a large one would weigh . and ive got to try and fit it into a raised pond !.. i ordered mine from an on line shop here in the uk
What is the preferred liner to use?
- Thread starter Buck
- Start date
It really depends on the size you are going. I would not use roofing stuff as I thought the way they formit there are residues on the outside that are not fish safe. The bigges 45mill that can be shipped fedex ground is the one I got, 20x25. It weighs 150lbs. the 60 mil weight to much and had to be LTLed, freight shipped. Cost more. The stuff is pretty resiliant thou and was a lot easier to install that I though in terms of weight. Just unfold the whole thing, then fold it on top of itself back and forth avery foot or two like a Z over and over. Then it is easy to pull it littl eby little by yourslef into your pond. I first rolled mine up after unfolding it, but realized I had to fold it like the above so I could do it myself. I folded the 20'x25' along the 20' length and put it infoont of my pond then pulled it in. Was way easier than I thought, but realized I had to start filling it after I got it aproximitly placed along one wall. Then spent the next 4 hours in it pulling out folds while it filled.
I was doing some rough calculations (educated guess?) in my head and with the way I shaped my pond, and the way I did the depth, Im really putting myself in a predicament I think. Im looking at maybe a 230-270 lb liner. :banghead3:stroppy said:
Today Im going to try a dry run with a piece of landscape fabric that I have. It about a 40 x 70 ft piece I believe (and much easier to handle) and I will get a good measurement by doing this.
Thats another thing Im afraid of...and that would suck in my pond the way it is shaped. :frown:
stroppy
stroppy
sounds like your going to need some help when it comes to laying the liner buck !
koiguy1969
GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!
on the roofing v.s pondliner issue, this may be of interest. found this on line
Roofing rubber vs fish grade rubber
Disclaimer – this page is not in any way intended to be a recommendation for using or not using any product. It is not presented as factual, but is a recounting of our experiences. It is the responsibility of the consumer to do proper research before buying and using a liner for their fish pond. We do not assume any responsibility for problems that may be incurred as the result of improper liner selection.
Just to be clear, in our professional installations, we use only rubber liner that has been designated by the manufacturer as fish safe. That is the expectation of our customers, and we cannot allow even the appearance of using improper materials. This information is presented solely to help interested people make their own informed decisions.
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When we first began to build ponds twenty years ago, backyard water features were not as popular as they are today. Many of the products and resources that are now common were not then available, including “fish safe” EPDM rubber pond liner. At the time it was common practice for the few of us in the industry to use a variety of materials for lining ponds – PVC, high density polyethylene, concrete, and other materials. One of the most common materials was EPDM roofing rubber, typically purchased directly from roofing supply companies.
The issue of fish safety was widely discussed at the time. Because fish ponds were not yet a major revenue source for the EPDM manufacturers, representatives of those companies were often very forthcoming with information. Here were the safety issues that they presented to us.
• As part of the manufacturing process, talcum powder is used to keep liner from sticking to itself as it comes off the processing machinery. Talcum powder is damaging to fishes gills. It can be scrubbed off with a scrub brush.
• EPDM is formulated in a number of ways depending on a variety of circumstances. Some formulations are entirely fish safe, and others are not. When you purchase liner from a roofing supplier, you may be purchasing either one. Those formulations that are not fish safe go through a process called degassing, in which, over the course of a few months a gas is emitted that is toxic to fish. Once this process is complete, the rubber is inert and will not have an effect on fish.
We have not found it possible to reconfirm this information through manufacturers’ representatives in recent years, possibly because fish safe liner has become a commonly purchased product.
This has long been a subject for discussion. The experience of other people is often helpful in these cases. Here is a link to a discussion that we found to be interesting. Note that there are three pages, and we encourage you to read all of them. Click your “back” button to return.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....&oe=UTF-8&q=epdm+fire+retardant+fish+toxicity
Roofing rubber vs fish grade rubber
Disclaimer – this page is not in any way intended to be a recommendation for using or not using any product. It is not presented as factual, but is a recounting of our experiences. It is the responsibility of the consumer to do proper research before buying and using a liner for their fish pond. We do not assume any responsibility for problems that may be incurred as the result of improper liner selection.
Just to be clear, in our professional installations, we use only rubber liner that has been designated by the manufacturer as fish safe. That is the expectation of our customers, and we cannot allow even the appearance of using improper materials. This information is presented solely to help interested people make their own informed decisions.
------------------------------------------------------
When we first began to build ponds twenty years ago, backyard water features were not as popular as they are today. Many of the products and resources that are now common were not then available, including “fish safe” EPDM rubber pond liner. At the time it was common practice for the few of us in the industry to use a variety of materials for lining ponds – PVC, high density polyethylene, concrete, and other materials. One of the most common materials was EPDM roofing rubber, typically purchased directly from roofing supply companies.
The issue of fish safety was widely discussed at the time. Because fish ponds were not yet a major revenue source for the EPDM manufacturers, representatives of those companies were often very forthcoming with information. Here were the safety issues that they presented to us.
• As part of the manufacturing process, talcum powder is used to keep liner from sticking to itself as it comes off the processing machinery. Talcum powder is damaging to fishes gills. It can be scrubbed off with a scrub brush.
• EPDM is formulated in a number of ways depending on a variety of circumstances. Some formulations are entirely fish safe, and others are not. When you purchase liner from a roofing supplier, you may be purchasing either one. Those formulations that are not fish safe go through a process called degassing, in which, over the course of a few months a gas is emitted that is toxic to fish. Once this process is complete, the rubber is inert and will not have an effect on fish.
We have not found it possible to reconfirm this information through manufacturers’ representatives in recent years, possibly because fish safe liner has become a commonly purchased product.
This has long been a subject for discussion. The experience of other people is often helpful in these cases. Here is a link to a discussion that we found to be interesting. Note that there are three pages, and we encourage you to read all of them. Click your “back” button to return.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....&oe=UTF-8&q=epdm+fire+retardant+fish+toxicity
I stand by the MSDS. All EPDM composition is the same. This article and the posts clearly state the only difference is the removal of the Talc and allowing the material to outgas.
This can easily be done by laying it out on your driveway and taking a hose and broom to it. Then let it sit in the sun for a day or 2, turn it over and repeat. The sun will bake out the harmfull gasses. I agree with the one lady who said, "why pay 50 cents a square foot more for a fish safe stamp on the material".
This is like marine hardware for boats, if it says marine, then the price is doubled because they know there are suckers out there that will pay it.
This can easily be done by laying it out on your driveway and taking a hose and broom to it. Then let it sit in the sun for a day or 2, turn it over and repeat. The sun will bake out the harmfull gasses. I agree with the one lady who said, "why pay 50 cents a square foot more for a fish safe stamp on the material".
This is like marine hardware for boats, if it says marine, then the price is doubled because they know there are suckers out there that will pay it.
koiguy1969
GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!
i dont disagree with you.. (i use trash bags and duct tape..lol again) just thouht it might help folks make a more informed decision, or get an interesting read. i thought about the roof liner myself but the only way i could get it locally was in 6' widths and getting a definitive answer on toxicity was not in the cards. so i opted for assurity.