What is eating my water lilies?

Mmathis

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I have my lilies in tubs. When I first saw the signs of destruction, I thought it was due to those little pond snails.

Well, today I decided to take a better look....
A couple of examples of what the leaves look like.
image.jpg


Then I started noticing "slices" of leaf material floating in the water and stuck to the leaves. On closer examination, I noticed that these "slices" of leaf were actually little leaf-burritos.
image.jpg


So I opened one up...
image.jpg
 
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Mmathis

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Wow....good detective work. I will have to check mine.

This happened within about a week's time -- very fast. I didn't look close enough during the early stages 'cause I assumed it was the snails. If I had, I might have seen what was happening to my poor lilies :(
 

j.w

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Sounds like you got it right!

Caterpillar Attack!How to identify and control
the larvae that afflict waterlilies By Kit Knotts - Click images to enlarge
Waterlilies fortunately have few pests and diseases that afflict them but one that can be a seasonal or constant problem, depending on where you live, is caterpillars. The ones that attack waterlilies are the larvae of the China Mark Moth.


These pests are known as "sandwich men" or "taco men" because they often cut pieces of pads and attach themselves between two layers, to hide while they ravage leaves and to float from pad to pad. In cooler climates, the caterpillars are only present spring and fall. In warm climates they can be a year-round problem.






The damage done by the caterpillars can be in several forms, the most obvious of which is rounded pieces cut out of pads. Infant larvae can be harder to spot, in fact almost invisible for a time. They can make tiny holes in the pads or a lacelike tracery that mimics other problems like fungus. At this stage they may not make sandwiches but will get between pads and stick them together. If they do make sandwiches, they are tiny and usually near the cut they have made, often at the edges of the pads.




As they grow larger, caterpillars can be most often found around the under edges of pads and in the center of pads where the stem attaches. They can also be found attached to stems several inches under water. In ponds with several varieties of waterlily, they will attack the softer leaved varieties first.

Control can be as simple as hand picking them off. A better answer for most pond keepers is to spray or sprinkle BT (Bacillus thuringiensis) on the pads. This is an all-natural control, completely harmless to anything but caterpillars. This bacillus paralyzes the intestinal tract of the larvae and they disappear in five to seven days. There are several strains of BT (Berliner is the best against the waterlily caterpillar) available at most garden centers. Because BT is alive, it should be as fresh as possible and stored in a cool place.

We personally apply BT brand name Thuricide with a hand spray bottle and mix it extra strong since we are spraying into water which will further dilute it. We spray either early in the morning or late in the afternoon since BT's effectiveness is weakened by exposure to sun and heat. Remember not to expect to see results immediately - it will take several days.

As mentioned above, in cooler climates caterpillars are seasonal but can plague growers in warm climates all year. BT has no residual effect so repeat spraying is indicted at the first sign of new infestation.

Pond snails often get the blame for the damage done by caterpillars since they can be found in the damaged areas as they begin to decay. Other pond inhabitants sometimes take the rap. Be sure to look for larvae before you try to kill off other creatures that may be beneficial to your pond!
 

Mmathis

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One article I read said that the larvae start out very small and it can be difficult to see them. And it seems that they are found on the parts of the leaf that are in contact with the water [tender stems, underside of pad....]

  1. As far as eradication, why don't the fish eat the little buggers off the leaves? ( NOTE that my water lilies are NOT currently in the pond, so this is a rhetorical question in my case..... ) Earlier in the spring I had some potted day lilies in the pond and they developed a bad infestation of some kind of little bugs -- let's call them aphids, though no idea if that's what they were. I tipped all the plants into the water and left them for a couple of days. The gold fish went wild, picking off the bugs, tiny as they were.
  2. These water lilies are in tubs [until the pond reno is completed] -- each lily in a separate tub. There are 3 of them. First tub was heavily infested, with the last 2 being less so than the one before it. No fish in the tubs -- tadpoles only [and pond snails]. Again, rhetorical question, but could container water lilies be more susceptible to attack?
  3. And, now that this batch of larvae appears to be about to transform, would it do any good to "treat" the leaves? Or is picking off the "Leaf-burritos" [and feeding the larvae to the fish] sufficient pest-control for now?
@minnowman Do you have any sage advice?
 
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Hmmm.... I have a little tub with 4 very small water lilies I got as bare root and I am trying to grow out and they have been munched a good bit. I also see a few bits of leave cut off and floating (although no burritos, lol). I have a few rosy reds in there, but maybe I'll get a petsmart feeder or 2 to drop in instead since it looks like if it is moth larva the rosy reds aren't taking care of the problem. I had thought it was snails as well, and maybe it is, but... I had been meaning to get another feeder into quarantine to add to the 4 in my pond so now I have a good reason to go shopping.
eatenleaves.jpg
 

minnowman

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There is a product that contains b.t. bacteria which will kill caterpillars that eat it. It comes in either a liquid or powder. I get mine from lowes as a liquid. Mix with water and spray it on the pads late in the afternoon. You might have to treat again in a couple of weeks to get it under control.
 

Mmathis

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There is a product that contains b.t. bacteria which will kill caterpillars that eat it. It comes in either a liquid or powder. I get mine from lowes as a liquid. Mix with water and spray it on the pads late in the afternoon. You might have to treat again in a couple of weeks to get it under control.

I just moved the water lilies from their temp. tubs to the pond [just filling it up after a too-long renovation]. I looked for and got rid of any of the "leaf-burritos" that were still in with the plants. New leaves have been coming up, and so far no signs of any more caterpillar damage.

If it were you, would you just watch the lilies, or would you do prophylactic treatments?
 

Mmathis

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@minnowman

The lilies really started putting out nice leaves once I got them situated in the pond -- it's been a week now. Looking at them yesterday, the edges are starting to look a little ragged. Guess it's time to start treatment?


This is a dust, but is it (or something like it) what I need to use? It says it won't harm wildlife, pets, etc., but when they use the word "pesticide," even though it's a biologic, it scares me -- just want to be sure!
=============================================================


8 OZ. GARDEN DUST
This pest control product is very effective in killing caterpillars and worms, including corn earworm, bollworm, armyworm, diamondback moth, green clover worm, hornworms, loopers, melon worm, pickleworm, tomato fruit worm, tobacco budworm, salt marsh caterpillar, mimosa webworm, and imported cabbageworm. The Safer Brand Garden Dust with B.t. utilizes bacillus thuringiensis (var. kurstaki) which, once ingested by the wayward pest, kills them within a few days. It is recommended that this product be applied late in the afternoon or on cloudy days since B.t. breaks down in the sunlight. When the B.t. is ingested by the worm, it works as a gut rot poison that makes the worm stop feeding. The caterpillar or worm will stop feeding immediately and die within days of malnutrition. Carefully read and follow all directions on the product's label. B.T. is very specific and only works on caterpillars and leaf feeding worms. It will not harm beneficial insects, children, pets or wildlife. It is recommended with any pesticide to test plants for sensitivity to the product. Spray a small section of the plant in an inconspicuous area and wait 24 hours before full coverage.
 
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