What equipment must I have?

[addy1]

Since I built on a slope the top of my pump is just a few inches above the water level. One good thing about slopes. The ground drops off so fast.

In arizona with the same pump, I had a check valve on the line, no priming issues.

 

[jmajid]

Even if you have a GFCI outlet, you should check it's operation regularly. Once a month or more - and not just with it's test/reset button. Buy one of the GFCI testers - they are cheap - and they are normally more than just a tester, as most times they also confirm your wiring is correct and still good.
Here is the one i have. It's the updated model of the very popular Sperry GFCI tester you see everywhere on YT. This is also easier to read.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163AKVRM

 

[mgmine]

If there is water running through a pump it doesn't matter if the pump is in the water or out of the water. Electricity will follow the water to ground. Just install a GFI and don't worry about it.

 

[GBBUDD]

That statement is a bit misleading. There's a huge difference in the potential of a shock or electrocution. With a submersible pump the electrical and its power source are submerged in the water. Your relying on waterproof seals to keep the two separated. And if that fails you then rely on the gfci.
A external pumps does not have any electrical underwater. There is no seal to rely on. The pump has very little chance of electrifying the water. But if on the rare failure. You then have the gfci as well.

 

[kelpie]

hmmm, I mentioned earlier that I'd never heard of this electrocution by submersible pump issue. I did some digging on google and while responses of "Never mix water and electric or you'll die" were easily found, examples of death by pond pump were not. Neither were deaths from electrocution by shower pump. There was a 4 person example with a "fountain pump" but that was found to be due to a lack of any earthing, and IIRC there were other issues at the breaker box contributing to the incident.

The two most common causes listed at www.electricshockdrowning.org were breakdown of insulation, (40 years in one memorable example) and a lack of grounding of the appliance. If you re getting shock from the submersible pump, theres a fault that may not be the pump. Changing from a submersible pump to an external pump and using the same power feed could easily mean the problem is still there.

It may very well be different here in the UK to elsewhere (we refer to GFID as RCD devices and all new homes have been required to have them built in for some time). But with correct grounding, the correct class of RCD (they vary by response speed waveform type etc) and a double insulated pump that wasn't a knock off design, I dont think I'm too worried by the hyperbole.

Will I fit an RCD? yes, already got them installed in the house. Will I PAT test the system during commissioning? yes. will I inspect the insulation is good and safe from damage? yes. Will I turn off the power before wading in to do some planting? probably. Am I going to worry about it? no.

 

[combatwombat]

@kelpie: If your pond is not intended for people to spend much or any time in, there's little to worry about using a submersible pump. However, looking for "death by pond pump" examples would be hard to come by because ponds designed for people to be in them are few and a very recent thing.

A better example would probably be electrocutions in swimming pools.

Again, we're talking about pretty low risk in both scenarios. But as it applies to ponds, I see it also as a practical matter. If people will be in the pond with any regular occurrence, then you can get both more safety and lower long term pump and electricity costs by going external. The only cost is a few extra hours of installation time.

 

[GBBUDD]

hmmm, I mentioned earlier that I'd never heard of this electrocution by submersible pump issue. I did some digging on google and while responses of "Never mix water and electric or you'll die" were easily found, examples of death by pond pump were not. Neither were deaths from electrocution by shower pump. There was a 4 person example with a "fountain pump" but that was found to be due to a lack of any earthing, and IIRC there were other issues at the breaker box contributing to the incident.

The most common failure to submersible is not the fault of the design as much as it is the user pulling on the electrical cord to pull the submersible pump up from below.

 

[GBBUDD]

One other potential problem with a submersible is there is usualy no fine basket strainer around the pump and that could get a hold of long hair and that's not a pretty picture to think about. Can it be prevented sure with a separation basket where that is illuminated. But even a external if you have main drain most codes call for two to be installed on the same line so if one does grab someone the other drain takes the pressure and not hold someone under

 

[kelpie]

@kelpie: If your pond is not intended for people to spend much or any time in, there's little to worry about using a submersible pump. However, looking for "death by pond pump" examples would be hard to come by because ponds designed for people to be in them are few and a very recent thing.

A better example would probably be electrocutions in swimming pools.

Again, we're talking about pretty low risk in both scenarios. But as it applies to ponds, I see it also as a practical matter. If people will be in the pond with any regular occurrence, then you can get both more safety and lower long term pump and electricity costs by going external. The only cost is a few extra hours of installation time.

I didnt actualy say I searched for "death by pond pumps" I searched for examples of the occurrence, but good idea, lets have a look at "electrocutions in swimming pools";

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and the American Red Cross are warning of another hidden danger to swimmers: electrocution. There have been 60 deaths and nearly 50 serious shocks reported over the past 13 years involving electrical hazards in and around swimming pools.

The CPSC is most concerned about faulty underwater lighting; aging electrical wiring that hasn't been inspected in years; the use of sump pumps, power washers, and vacuums that are not grounded; and electrical appliances (such as radios and TVs) and extension cords falling or being pulled into the water. All of these hazards present an even greater risk if the lighting, circuits, and nearby receptacles are not protected by Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupters (GFCIs)

NOTE 1: sump pumps are not the same as submersible pumps.
NOTE 2: 110 incidents in 13 years? How Many Pools Are in the United States? There are 10.4 million residential and 309,000 public swimming pools in the United States, according to the Association of Pool & Spa Professionals (APSP).

From that perspective theres a 99.99999% chance of me being ok. I don't see that as a risk but YMMV

 

[combatwombat]

I didnt actualy say I searched for "death by pond pumps" I searched for examples of the occurrence, but good idea, lets have a look at "electrocutions in swimming pools";

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and the American Red Cross are warning of another hidden danger to swimmers: electrocution. There have been 60 deaths and nearly 50 serious shocks reported over the past 13 years involving electrical hazards in and around swimming pools.

The CPSC is most concerned about faulty underwater lighting; aging electrical wiring that hasn't been inspected in years; the use of sump pumps, power washers, and vacuums that are not grounded; and electrical appliances (such as radios and TVs) and extension cords falling or being pulled into the water. All of these hazards present an even greater risk if the lighting, circuits, and nearby receptacles are not protected by Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupters (GFCIs)

NOTE 1: sump pumps are not the same as submersible pumps.
NOTE 2: 110 incidents in 13 years? How Many Pools Are in the United States? There are 10.4 million residential and 309,000 public swimming pools in the United States, according to the Association of Pool & Spa Professionals (APSP).

From that perspective theres a 99.99999% chance of me being ok. I don't see that as a risk but YMMV

There is no such thing as no risk. Onlyacceptable risk. Every person (and governing body like the NEC) decides for themselves.

At this point, I think we’re just arguing over semantics. A sump pump is a type of submersible pump.

Like I said: Given GFCI protection, risk is low in either case. Risk is lower with external pump.

 

[Alden]

Hi alden, Welcome. could you expand more on the above statement please, I've not heard of this?

Kelpie- sorry I for the delay! When I referred to my wildlife pond, the word “wildlife” includes my two kids and our doodle dog. I just can’t get on board with the idea an electrical appliance submerged in water is a no- risk method for running the waterfall,when all my beloved critters will be playing in the pond. It’s been a process to get the external pump situation in place, but well worth the peace of mind! ( I did come across a couple of pond current horror stories online, but it certainly isn’t mentioned on any brochure! )

 

[Jhn]

@Alden I would be more concerned with your kids wiping out and busting their head trying to play in the pond than getting electrocuted by a pump. Not a big fan of getting in ponds other than for maintenance purposes, most don’t realize that your underwater surfaces are covered in a biofilm that make everything like walking on ice. Getting in a man made pond to swim or play in sounds great until you try to do it and end up biting it.

Watch people around boat ramps or anything going into the water in nature, trying to walk down to get in the water with nothing to Hang on to can be tricky.

 

[GBBUDD]

When people who do there homework go looking for a alternate to the chlorinated pool the salt water pool wins over the fresh water pond for tge exact reasons @Jhn mentioned . Try this take a piece of rubber place it on a hill then try to walk up it it by its self is slick. And rocks youd think your all set but nope that bio film is as slick as it gets. Duck shoes /boat shoes are almost a must they help greatly but also give a false sense of security.