waterfall string algae

[Smaug]

Sissy I thought I heard you recomend peroxide earlier?

 

[pecan]

I have string algae on my pots and my big ponds water fall. I remove it by hand when it gets too thick and affects the flow. But that's about it. I kind of like the look on the sides of the pots.

Here is my pond waterfall the day before yesterday with lots of string algae. Ill probably pull it off this evening. It will be back in a few weeks. As you can see my water is clear. string algae helps to filter the water

.

 

[sissy]

I do it is just that now my pond does not need any no algae on the waterfall rocks at all .A little muck but that's it .It was used when I first started all 4 of my ponds when they were first built but after 2 or 3 years I don't need to use it but others can use it safely .I don't really mind the stuff on the waterfall rocks in the water fall pond .It is about 6 inch's deep and you can even see the pvc pipe for the water fall pond spitter

 

[Mucky_Waters]

As regards to sodium percarbonate vs hydrogen peroxide, let put it in perspective and look at it's LD50 rating.
In case you are not sure what the LD50 rating is, (LD50) is the amount of an ingested substance that kills 50 percent of a test sample. It is expressed in mg/kg, or milligrams of substance per kilogram of body weight. An LD50 represents the individual dose required to kill 50 percent of a population of test animals (e.g., rats, fish, mice, cockroaches).

Here are the approximate LD50 ratings of some common chemicals. Just remember the lower the LD50 number the more toxic it is, the higher the number the less toxic it is.

Bleach has an LD50 of 192
Hydrogen peroxide has an LD50 of 2000
Sodium percarbonate has an LD50 of 2400.
Salt: Table salt (sodium chloride) has an LD50 of 3000
Glyphosate (the active ingredient in RoundUp herbicide) has an LD50 of 5600

 

[Meyer Jordan]

look at it's LD50 rating.

I think that you mean LC50.

 

[sissy]

poor little test animals .No matter what today there is a risk there .Even food is a big risk since we have so many people to feed and so many farmers getting older and farms are getting sold off .But there is a new resurgence of urban farmers and small farmers .I have not used peroxide so far except in my stock tank and that was because of the plants .I don't have a pump going in it at all or air stone in it .It just sits there empty for now.The crate that had quilt batting in it is turned off since all plants went to there new homes

 

[Meyer Jordan]

As regards to sodium percarbonate vs hydrogen peroxide, let put it in perspective and look at it's LD50 rating.
In case you are not sure what the LD50 rating is, (LD50) is the amount of an ingested substance that kills 50 percent of a test sample. It is expressed in mg/kg, or milligrams of substance per kilogram of body weight. An LD50 represents the individual dose required to kill 50 percent of a population of test animals (e.g., rats, fish, mice, cockroaches).

Here are the approximate LD50 ratings of some common chemicals. Just remember the lower the LD50 number the more toxic it is, the higher the number the less toxic it is.

Bleach has a LD50 of 192
Hydrogen peroxide has an LD50 of 2000
Sodium percarbonate has an LD50 of 2400.
Salt: Table salt (sodium chloride) has an LD50 of 3000
Glyphosate (the active ingredient in RoundUp herbicide) has an LD50 of 5600

LC50 ratings are usually given with a time frame attached (in hours) along with the specie of animal or plant that these particular LC50 ratings apply to.
What specie does your posted numbers apply to?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

LC50 ratings are usually given with a time frame attached (in hours) along with the specie of animal or plant that these particular LC50 ratings apply to.
What specie does your posted numbers apply to?

Well it wouldn't be humans, would it? since those kind of test aren't normally done on humans.
Rats and mice are the standard test subjects, and since they often have slightly different levels of tolerance I said approx LD50 ratings.
I guess we could get into some lengthy debate about whether those ratings would apply to common pond fish like goldfish or koi, although I don't think that's really necessary. But I'm willing if you're willing.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Well it wouldn't be humans, would it? since those kind of test aren't normally done on humans.
Rats and mice are the standard test subjects, and since they often have slightly different levels of tolerance I said approx LD50 ratings.
I guess we could get into some lengthy debate about whether those ratings would apply to common pond fish like goldfish or koi, although I don't think that's really necessary. But I'm willing if you're willing.

Since you apparently did not take the time to read the MSDS that I posted the link to, let me just 'copy and paste' for you.

"12.1 Toxicity

Toxicity to fish static test LC50 - Danio rerio (zebra fish) - > 1,000 mg/l - 96 h (OECD Test Guideline 203)

Toxicity to daphnia and other aquatic invertebratesstatic test EC50 - Daphnia magna (Water flea) - > 100 mg/l - 48 h
(OECD Test Guideline 202)

Toxicity to algae static test EC50 - Pseudokirchneriella subcapitata - > 435.7 mg/l - 72 h
(OECD Test Guideline 201)"

As is evident more than rats and mice are used to determine toxicity of substances. The EPA has available page after page of LC50 values for many substances and their toxicity to many animal species.

EC50 is a half-point value between Zero and Maximum toxicity to a specie.


The difference between LD50 and LC50 is explained here--
https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/ld50.html

Goldfish and Koi have similar tolerances to toxic substances since they are both Cyprinids. Given that Danio (Zebra Fish) are also Cyprinids the LC50 values given in the linked MSDS do relate.

No need for a lengthy discussion for the basic information is there for anyone to easily find.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I think that you mean LC50.

No the values I gave were the LD50's.

Toxicological Data on Ingredients: Sodium percarbonate: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 2400 mg/kg [Rat]. 2200 mg/kg [Mouse].
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

The LC50 values for "fish" would also be a good comparison, but it seems those values are harder to find. Please list the LC50's for "fish" for the chemical I mentioned if you have them.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Please list the LC50's for "fish" for the chemical I mentioned if you have them.

There is little data available on the toxic effects of Sodium Perchlorate on aquatic organisms. That, however, will soon be changing as this chemical is becoming more prevalent in ground and surface waters. The EPA is currently compiling data to publish a document that will detail this chemicals toxicity as relates to the environment.
Until this document is published one will have to infer the toxic effects of this chemical on aquatic organisms from what data is available.
The LC50 values listed in post #24 are one set of benchmarks. One other source was found that stated-

"The literature of acute perchlorate toxicity to teleost fishes appears to comprise a single paper by Kahane (1936)159, who found that goldfish-exhibit no evidence of distress at sodium perchlorate levels below 1000 mg/i (800 mg/I as ClO) (Table 13). At levels exceeding 2000 mg/l (800 mg/l as CLO4), symptoms of asphyxiation are noticeable, and mortality is complete in a few hours at 20,000 mg/l. This represents an order of acute toxicity so low that perchlorate can probably be dismissed as an environmental hazard to freshwater fishes, although a few corroborative studies with more sensitive fish, such as the rainbow trout, would probably be desirable,as would similar studies with at least one marine fish."
TOXICITY TO AQUATIC ORGANISMS AND CHEMISTRY
OF NINE SELECTED WATERBORNE POLLUTANTS FROM MUNITIONS
MANUFACTURE - A LITERATURE EVALUATION, U.S. Army 1975

 

[Nepen]

I just clean my stream yesterday with Sodium Percarbonate. I've used SP like 3-4 times on my pond since last year, sometimes without water change after. I put them in a gallon jug and most of the time used up the whole jug (with 30 feet stream, i have lots to cover). My fish were/are fine. My were/tads are not. Tads that didnt get hit directly are alive but the one that couldnt move away (that I didnt see) died with about 20 mins of exposure to SP. I think with the frogs, if they got SP on the skin, it's very irritate to the skin. I got one little frog that got a few of the SP on the skin, i had to catch it and rinse the SP off for him and he seems calmer after that.
The fish, since they were in the big pond, they dont have direct contact with the SP, only in the water. they seem to be fine and I have not have any casualty.
The SP not only kill the algae, it lift the mug/dead leaves off the ground and off the rocks so it could be easily scoop out. And with water change, it make my pond like new(er).

My stream lost about an inch of water level after I clean it with SP, which the water level was the reason i had to clean it or my water will keep getting divert out by the algae blocking/reducing flow of my stream.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I don't mean to imply that SP shouldn't be used, but since many chemicals have a level at which they do become toxic, it only makes sense that one would want to know at what level the product/chemical that they are using may begin to cause problems in their pond. This is why I post links to the MSDS sheets, to help the members of this Forum make informed decisions.

 

[Nepen]

Sorry @Mayer Jordan, i just re-read and it does sounds like i was being snarky/offensive, but I assure you i was not at all meant for it to sound that way, I was just simply told my experience with it with real pond habitat.

Always value your knowledge.

 

[sissy]

I guess with any thing you take the chance of something going wrong .I think that less feeding the fish cuts back on all the problems also .I do keep crushed oyster shells and pdz in my filters and never really had a problem with algae or a build up of it since the fish are not feeding it to make it grow .Even the waterfall pond which gets full sun all dat is clear