water hyacinth and green water

[hawk2110]

waterbug..."So going back to what I said earlier....it is safe if used exactly as directed. Underestimate your pond volume and you have dead fish. Not the manufacturer's fault. Have poor water quality or fish not in perfect health, you can have dead fish. Not the manufacturer's fault, at least according to them."

This is all I am trying to get across to you. I understand that it can be toxic to the fish and plants if it is toxic to humans and other fish. but you also just said "it is safe if used exactly as directed"...if you dont want dead fish dont be dumb and use it incorrectly. if you have good areation (my pond has one large waterfall and one small) and over 1 full turnover per hour...you wont have a loss of oxygen. This is what the manufacturer is hoping that you have. They dont say that on the bottle but you should be smart enough to know before using it that you need good areation and good filtration and you should not by any means use more than directed. but there are some of you saying it is such a terrible thing to use then go on to say that it is safe if used correctly.

shdwdrgn...this is what i love about having a pond. plant lillies and in a few years they are exploding and have flowers and big pads and then the floating plants explode and cover your pond. you can start giving them away and helping fellow ponders. also, they do have a nice pretty little flower on them but i wish it would stay longer. Also, this year I am getting my pond to be a koi only pond. I have two large ones and 4 small ones. it will be fun to watch them grow also. (there are 3 mud fish. they are koi goldfish offspring. i just call them mudfish because they are brown. I have already caught 3 but they are fast little buggers.)

also mucky_waters...that is a cool expiriment. I wish that there was a really easy and cheap way to keep hyacinths over winter. I dont like having to wait so long in order to buy them.

 

[CometKeith]

hawk, I think that's way to small amount of plants to turn your water clear from green. If you read up on pond cycling it's very typical that a pond turns clear after being green when it is cycling. I don't think it had anything to do with the plants. Also I agree with waterbug that most of the chemicals you add to a pond are useless and do more harm than good.

 

[Waterbug]

waterbug..."So going back to what I said earlier....it is safe if used exactly as directed. Underestimate your pond volume and you have dead fish. Not the manufacturer's fault. Have poor water quality or fish not in perfect health, you can have dead fish. Not the manufacturer's fault, at least according to them."

This is all I am trying to get across to you.

Yes, I know, I'm the one who said it. I agree with you. I was posting to warn others about the dangers only because you left that part out of your original post.

I understand that it can be toxic to the fish and plants if it is toxic to humans and other fish.

No, it's not that it can be toxic, it's definitely is toxic to fish and plants. You may be confusing toxic and deadly. Arsenic is toxic, but everyone consumes some everyday.

The unanswered question is how toxic is it to the specific fish and plants a person has in their pond, given the condition of the pond and fish at that moment. Certainly possible it's toxic enough to cause death in the short term. Many people report that very thing and the company won't release their studies so there's little data. I'm going to go on a limb and guess the company's studies showed it was deadly to Koi and Goldfish at certain levels...but that info doesn't help sell product which is why they won't release it. If it were safe at 2x, 3x, 4x the needed dose they'd be telling everyone. They no doubt used that info to set a dose that was high enough to sometimes kill algae (many poeple report it didn't work for them) but low enough that most Koi and Goldfish would survive. I would like to know those levels and test results rather than just trusting the "safe for Koi and Goldfish" label. But that's just me.

if you have good areation (my pond has one large waterfall and one small) and over 1 full turnover per hour...you wont have a loss of oxygen. This is what the manufacturer is hoping that you have.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I wonder if your perspective would change if your fish had died? Based on the accounts I read of people contacting the company when their fish died I assume the company's position would be that you didn't have enough aeration. They don't give any specific O2 level, just that the pond has to be well aerated. If your fish die your pond didn't have enough aeration by definition.

IMO turning over a pond once per hour would be standard aeration. Any kind of treatment that lowers O2 would warrant increased aeration. But your fish lived so obviously you had enough aeration on that day. I hope your luck holds.

 

[hawk2110]

I no that wasn't the entire story why it cleared but they reproduced so quickly and the water turned around as they reproduced so that's why I said it. I only wanted to start this because of how amazing those plants arje and how quickly they reproduce. I no websites say it also but I wanted to tell my account of them.

 

[addy1]

My hyacinths never did well, maybe not enough fish poop yet or the bog is sucking the pond dry. I am skipping them this year. My lilies go crazy though
Glad yours are doing great!

 

[ComputerGuy]

I'm so tired of hearing the "theory" of water hyacinth have been proven incorrect. It IS effective. If it weren't effective, it wouldn't be used in waste-water treatment plants. It's VERY effective in removing heavy metals from water and is even more effective in removing effluent material from water. Several states (including California and Colorado) have started using BOTH water hyacinth and water lettuce in their waste-water treatment plants to remove effluent material and heavy metals from the water. Hydromentia is just one example of a company that uses Water Hyacinth in their operations. They are one of the industry leaders in waste-water treatment from swine farms.

Many people figure the same thing. It's certainly a logical enough theory. And a theory that has been stated as being fact for many years, by many people, in many forums. Also a theory that has been tested and proven incorrect many times.

A green pond generally has zero ammonia and nitrates because the algae is consuming all there is as it becomes available to reproduce. When an algae bloom dies and water goes clear there is generally a spike in ammonia short term and increased nitrates longer term. Very simple for anyone to test and many papers written on the subject.

However, many people can't be bothered to do any testing and prefer to just look at a pond and draw conclusions based on imagination and can't wait to tell everyone of their "findings". Online forums are a perfect place for this because it's rarely challenged.

 

[Shoestring Ponder]

I agree ComputerGuy. The second season we had our pool/pond conversion, we had purchased a few WH but as the season went on and other's WH kept on growing, we "adopted" them to put in our pond. By summer's end, we had about 90% coverage between WH and WL and the clearest water with only a simple fountain pump. Mind you, this is a 24' above ground pool/pond. We even floated hula hoops in the pond in order to have a "window to their world" as the WH and WL continued to grow and cover the pond surface. I do think that they did get out of hand, as we started weeding out the WL to allow the WH more space and finally weeded out some of the WH. I fully believe the WH helped w our water that year and that is our standard to which subsequent seasons are measured against. We have 3 1/2' of water and you could see clearly from elbow to fingertips. The 3rd season, DH put together a "skippy filter" in August. Previous to that, we had some WH but not nearly as much as the previous season. The skippy w the WH did a good job, but not as clear as the previous season w only the WH,WL and small pond fountain/filter. This season (4th), we had terribly warm weather in March and April, some days were near 90* and w DH out of town, I was unable myself to set up the skippy, although I did order 18 WH and requested they come early due to our unseasonably warm "Spring." Unfortunately, although we continue to have warmer weather, the water turned green almost immediately and I have been battling pea soup from the get go. My WH are doing well, even having 3 blooms this past week. They are putting out daughters all the time....but I have not had a chance to adopt free ones from others' ponds and what I have a just a drop in a bucket for the size pond we have. I will say though, the fish don't seem to mind the green water and neither does our Bull Frog. I would not venture a guess as to how many fish we have either. I just hope the WH do their job and the skippy (which is not large enough for the size pond we have) continues to remove what sludge it can. I fully believe in the Water Hyacinth's abilities to clear the water....unfortunately, I am asking for a fast miracle because I am impatient. I will also add, my DH wants me to purchase more WH for the pond, I, OTOH, want to get them from people who need to get rid of some. I can w8.

:goldfish:

 

[hawk2110]

Addy1 I'm sorry hear yours didn't work but if your pond is healthy then congrats. My lillies in third year of pond are finally maturing and going crazy too.

computerguy and shoestring ponder I agree that they are awesome for cleaning water. I have heard of several water treatment plants that use the WH. They are able to refine the water help make it cleaner and clearer which in turn helps the fish and my ability to see them in the summer

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I'm so tired of hearing the "theory" of water hyacinth have been proven incorrect. It IS effective. If it weren't effective, it wouldn't be used in waste-water treatment plants. It's VERY effective in removing heavy metals from water and is even more effective in removing effluent material from water. Several states (including California and Colorado) have started using BOTH water hyacinth and water lettuce in their waste-water treatment plants to remove effluent material and heavy metals from the water. Hydromentia is just one example of a company that uses Water Hyacinth in their operations. They are one of the industry leaders in waste-water treatment from swine farms.

Things is Computer guy, they are using the water hyacinth to consume effluent and heavy metal, not clear up algae blooms. There is a difference. For that mater algae also consumes effluent and heavy metal, it's just harder to remove algae from the water once it has been consumed.

That is not to say they don't help control algae in your pond. If your pond has so many water hyacinth that it is blocking enough sunlight from reaching the water, that will certainly help control algae blooms, guaranteed.

 

[ComputerGuy]

The effluent that they consume on swine farms and in water treatment plants ARE nitrates and ammonia. Reducing the amount of nitrates in the water serves to starve off the algae and will drastically reduce the green water algae. A Koi clay regimen helps to reduce the amount of string algae and has the added benefit of brightening the colors of the fish.

 

[Waterbug]

Reducing nutrients has nothing to do with clear water. Never has, never will. Reducing nutrients can make water clearer, not clear. Mountains of studies on the subject.

However I don't believe data and facts will ever change in a million years the overall opinions in online forums. Fine with me. I only have to worry about me.

 

[hawk2110]

waterbug..you are making no sense once again. "it makes water clearer, not clear" you need to get off your high horse. people on this forum and all over the world agree that it helps. this topic has taken such a bad spin from what it originally was intended. you are fighting everything that everyone says with paragraph answers that make no sense. you contradict yourself almost every time you post something.

 

[hawk2110]

does this look familiar waterbug?

Internet Expert Advice

And this applies to this web site too.
Items in chat boards become fact by repeated enough.
Most chat rooms, doesn't matter the subject, have resident "experts". You get to be an "expert" by hanging around longer than anyone alse and flaming anyone who questions their dogma. The need to be "right" is overwhelming in many people.

take it from your own words..you are doing exactly this..thinking you are an "expert" that you always need to be "right." I never said anything I do is perfect i am just very annoyed that you need to be right on everything and saying there is something wrong with everything a lot of us say. even if it is something as simple as water hyacinth help the water to clear up.

 

[Waterbug]

I willing to bet I've provided more links and references so people could decide for themselves than all other posts combined.

Sitting around giving advice based on "I saw this so it must be true" if fine. But it has little merit. Thinking everyone is going to accept nonsense as fact is childlike. Responding with anger and defensiveness instead of making your case to support your position is just sad and a waste of time.

 

[addy1]

Addy1 I'm sorry hear yours didn't work but if your pond is healthy then congrats. My lillies in third year of pond are finally maturing and going crazy too.

computerguy and shoestring ponder I agree that they are awesome for cleaning water. I have heard of several water treatment plants that use the WH. They are able to refine the water help make it cleaner and clearer which in turn helps the fish and my ability to see them in the summer

They did fine in my stream pond, grew like weeds, just never took off in the big pond. In the stream pond they bloomed all summer, in the big pond, just minor blooming at the end of the season and minor growing. I have plenty of plants so just not messing with them this year. Seeing how the pond does, so far crystal clear and doing great, pretty much algae free. A very slight covering on the liner. The stream ponds do have some algae, but we don't run water 24/7 down the stream, those ponds get warm and tons of sun. No fish, that I know of.