water color change with rains

[julieblain]

We have a 3kgal koi pond that is well stocked and in excellent chemical balance, pH usually between 7.0 and 7.4, clear, algae controlled via barley and not over feeding. Every year late fall the water will turn an orange tint soon as we have the first heavy rain, and the pH will increase to 7.6-8.0. The water remains crystal clear to the bottom (4ft), but the white koi appear yellowish when viewed thru the water and it has an orange tint...it will stay this way until March or April. I do feed Terra Vibrance, which has an orange coloring but the food is cut back in November and it's not until the rains the tint appears. I do have trees on my property that the autumn leaves do get in the pond but I'm good about scooping them out before they break down. I live in SoCal so there isn't much temperature change, or even rain for that matter. Any suggestions on the cause?

 

[addy1]

Seems like something is washing into your pond, Can runoff rain water get into it?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Definitely appears to be considerable run-off of some form and highly Alkaline also. Since rainfall pH is typically ~5.6, whatever the rain is transporting has a pH high enough to counteract the pH of the rain AND raise the pH of the pond. In areas where rainfall occurs after periods of drought, the pollutant levels of the run-off will be considerably higher than average.

 

[j.w]

Julie
Sounds like runoff into the pond. If you build your edge around the pond so runoff can't enter perhaps that will solve your problem. I built mine up high w/a berm around it so no runoff into mine.

 

[sissy]

You could be getting acid rain .I have tested the rain water I collect here .Like yesterday rain water was at a ph of 9 which really surprised me .We usually only get the higher ph in the spring rains .But wondering if the Orion launch or other things could be causing some of this .We have had a lot of those bigger planes go over lately .We get planes and helicopters go over from the air force base also lately .Pollution from them and the you add in all the foresting they are doing around here .They are cutting down trees on a 450 acre piece of land

 

[julieblain]

Seems like something is washing into your pond, Can runoff rain water get into it?

Well, I thought of that and the only place really is where the stream from one of the waterfalls collects, but it wouldn't be much. My husband thinks it occurs before the rain, that it happens when the leaves start turning and dropping, perhaps some minerals from the leaves. I test my water and it's perfect, 0 nitrates/nitrites/ammonia and my pH stays within 0.3 points and always between 7-8, it's not "acid rain" for sure, fish are happy & healthy as can be...just the color every "winter"...I put that in quotes because, well...it's 75* again today.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You could be getting acid rain .I have tested the rain water I collect here .Like yesterday rain water was at a ph of 9 which really surprised me .We usually only get the higher ph in the spring rains .But wondering if the Orion launch or other things could be causing some of this .We have had a lot of those bigger planes go over lately .We get planes and helicopters go over from the air force base also lately .Pollution from them and the you add in all the foresting they are doing around here .They are cutting down trees on a 450 acre piece of land

You may want to purchase a new pH test kit. Rainfall pH rarely exceeds 6.5. The highest rainfall pH recorded was on the Tibetan plateau where a pH of 8.86 was recorded in an isolated incident. This particular rainfall was heavily polluted with soil dust which in that geographical region is Alkaline.
Rainfall run-off, however, can become quite Alkaline if it is exposed to carbonates such as Limestone.
julieblain, what tree species do you have and how close are they to the pond?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Well, I thought of that and the only place really is where the stream from one of the waterfalls collects, but it wouldn't be much. My husband thinks it occurs before the rain, that it happens when the leaves start turning and dropping, perhaps some minerals from the leaves. I test my water and it's perfect, 0 nitrates/nitrites/ammonia and my pH stays within 0.3 points and always between 7-8, it's not "acid rain" for sure, fish are happy & healthy as can be...just the color every "winter"...I put that in quotes because, well...it's 75* again today.

Your husband my be correct about the discoloring of the pond water. Tannins leach from dead leaves when exposed to water. What is more puzzling is the sudden increase in pH AFTER the rain. Assuming no run-off, there should be very little change, and this would be a reduction in pH (more acidic)

 

[julieblain]

Definitely appears to be considerable run-off of some form and highly Alkaline also. Since rainfall pH is typically ~5.6, whatever the rain is transporting has a pH high enough to counteract the pH of the rain AND raise the pH of the pond. In areas where rainfall occurs after periods of drought, the pollutant levels of the run-off will be considerably higher than average.

My water pH runs between 7.-8.0 year round, with not more than a 0.3 variable change in any 24hr period so it's pretty close to perfect. There is no change in pH per say, just the color. The house is an older one built on an old orange orchard, the soil here is rich and we keep everything park like. It is surrounded by old trees, but we are 12 minutes from Disneyland, so certainly there is plenty of pollution, but again...it does not affect the pH or clarity....only the color, so since rain is acidic as you say, it would be affecting the pH if it were runoff causing it. If there is any run-off water into the pond it is minimal as we have liner and rock built up around the edges, we maintain a few bog plants on a shelf at each end but no lilies/lettuce in the water.

 

[julieblain]

You may want to purchase a new pH test kit. Rainfall pH rarely exceeds 6.5. The highest rainfall pH recorded was on the Tibetan plateau where a pH of 8.86 was recorded in an isolated incident. This particular rainfall was heavily polluted with soil dust which in that geographical region is Alkaline.
Rainfall run-off, however, can become quite Alkaline if it is exposed to carbonates such as Limestone.
julieblain, what tree species do you have and how close are they to the pond?

My pH test kit is fine, it matches my pond maintenance man's values, plus I'm a scientist, I'm using the correct type/quality. As I said, my pond pH stays between 7-8.0 year round and the pH isn't really changing significantly. The rocks that make my pond and the waterfalls are 80% granite, 15% limestone, and 5% synthetic polymer. The main trees are Mulberry, Chinese Elm, and California pepper and jacaranda, these are all intertwined with kudzu and bougainvillea, the trees themselves are all at least 35ft from the pond and the umbrella comes to the edge of the pond in 2 areas, maybe 8' of shoreline total. I was thinking perhaps some iron from the leaves of the mulberry?

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Julie and welcome from a cold but sunny Plymouth UK
Do you have any peat nearby in my home county of Lancashire most of the rivers run that colour all the time due to runoff into the river from the high moors otherwise I'd say the same as Meyer in saying that its tannin from dead leaves .
Another thought could it be the barley straw , I take it you replace it once a year?
Personally if you get it every year and your koi arent harmed by it then I'd let it run its course , just keep a close eye on your water perameters
Try swopping your autumn fall feeds to wheatgerm and garlic and if you dont go bellow that of 10c feed it to them till the spring

Dave

 

[julieblain]

Hi Julie and welcome from a cold but sunny Plymouth UK
Do you have any peat nearby in my home county of Lancashire most of the rivers run that colour all the time due to runoff into the river from the high moors otherwise I'd say the same as Meyer in saying that its tannin from dead leaves .
Another thought could it be the barley straw , I take it you replace it once a year?
Personally if you get it every year and your koi arent harmed by it then I'd let it run its course , just keep a close eye on your water perameters
Try swopping your autumn fall feeds to wheatgerm and garlic and if you dont go bellow that of 10c feed it to them till the spring

Dave

Dave, The land I'm on was an old orange orchard, I wouldn't call it peat because it's dessert, not bog...the only water we get is that which is pumped in from NorCal, or calcified well water (no sulfur). The barley straw is a relatively new addition (since September) and I have this color change every year. I'm not seeing it as being run-off problems, as I said the possible run-off is from a small area that is rock lined and has been well established as a stream year round, and pH is well maintained. It is probably the autumn leaves leaching into the pond, I can't get them all out scooping and picking and it occurs the same time of year, lasts the winter...
I do cut way back on their food but I have always stayed with the Vibrance, I also feed them frozen peas, which they love and I understand that even tho it hasn't much nutrition there are enzymes that help with the slower digestion of the cooler weather; garlic, huh?...My pond never gets below 50*F, we have perfect weather here which is why there are so damned many people!

 

[sissy]

It is a new test kit I just bought a week ago and even tested the rain water 4 times .I put clean canning jars out to collect the water .I still wonder if it could come from all the trees being cut down .They are even out there today cutting trees and they start every morning around 7 am .Mulberry trees in NJ used to change my water in my big fountain pond .I loved the mulberrys so could not get rid of them .Barley straw says replace every 6 months ,unless that is because they want to sell more

 

[sissy]

I use garlic to help them ward off diseases and help them digest food .

 

[Dave 54]

Dave, The land I'm on was an old orange orchard, I wouldn't call it peat because it's dessert, not bog...the only water we get is that which is pumped in from NorCal, or calcified well water (no sulfur). The barley straw is a relatively new addition (since September) and I have this color change every year. I'm not seeing it as being run-off problems, as I said the possible run-off is from a small area that is rock lined and has been well established as a stream year round, and pH is well maintained. It is probably the autumn leaves leaching into the pond, I can't get them all out scooping and picking and it occurs the same time of year, lasts the winter...
I do cut way back on their food but I have always stayed with the Vibrance, I also feed them frozen peas, which they love and I understand that even tho it hasn't much nutrition there are enzymes that help with the slower digestion of the cooler weather; garlic, huh?...My pond never gets below 50*F, we have perfect weather here which is why there are so damned many people!

Wheatgerm and garlic is a food we go over too from fall through to when our temperature dips bellow 10c.
Then in spring as the temperature rises above 10c we feed the same again till late spring early summer , when we swop over to our summer higher protien feeds .
Garlic helps protect koi against parasites and this is something the koi food industry is picking up on NTLabs is the food we tend to use .
It seems the vector for ths colouring has to be either the rain or dead leaves seeing as weve ruled everything else out .
Julie a quick experiment add some leaves to a bucket of water and leave it for a few days to see if this is the cause if you can eliminate that then it has to be your rains

Dave