Water Changes

[Mucky_Waters]

I would be very interested to hear how someone could mix up a protein skimmer and the other two mentioned.
Protein skimmers are designed to mechanically remove DOC. Towers and showers are meant to facilitate bacteria digesting DOC.
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It's easy. I have a Phoam Phraxionator (protein skimmer) and although it's design allows for the formation and expelling of foam which contains the DOC or (protein) it also has a tower full of media that makes for a perfect breeding grounds for nitrifying bacteria. I can at any time stop it from expelling foam at any time by simply opening the bottom water level valve so the DOCs just continue to cycle through the pond, but the water will still continue to flow (trickle) through the biological media in the tower. Also the foam production is not consistent because or certain environmental factors, and at times it will produce very little or no foam at all. When that happens it still continues to function 100% as a biological trickle filter without any changes or modifications be me.
Interesting if I wanted to convert my Phoam Phraxionator into one of Meyer's anaerobic nitrate reducing towers all I would have to do is seal the opening on the top of the tower, and seal the foam expelling port and reduce the water flow to a trickle. Done!
The point being that these designs are not so completely different.

 

[MitchM]

O.K., first, what's this "Phoam Phraxtionator" nonsense? Is this a trade name? - because those certainly are not real words. "Phoam" is correctly spelled "foam", and "Phraxinator" is spelled "fractionation". Let's not start a new old wives tale about some mythical "phoam phraxionator"

Better yet, let's just call it a protein skimmer.

A protein skimmer is a Rube Goldberg method of processing dissolved carbon in the water column, with any mechanical removal of foam being visible for the benefit of the user for the most part.. If someone isn't familiar with Rube Goldberg machines, check here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

The majority of the work of breaking down DOC's is done by bacteria. Any aeration that you can provide will assist the bacteria. Let's not neglect to include their contribution to waste processing.

Are you including some sort of media in your skimmer? Or are you referring to the walls of the foam contact chamber?
If you have some media in your skimmer, then that's just additional surface area for aerobic bacteria activity. (what I used to consider a trickle tower..)

I don't really care that much about the terminology for our contraptions, but if people thought first about what the bacteria is doing that is inhabiting the submerged surfaces and within the water column within their pond, these discussions could be a lot shorter.

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[Mucky_Waters]

I use the name Phoam Phraxionator out of respect for Ethan's long standing thread in Koiphen that sparked my interest in building one. http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?107532-How-to-make-a-phoam-phraxionator-1300-1500-gph
I also have a thread in this forum about the one I built which was nicely illustrated with photos, but the Mods here screwed with the way the photo gallery links work a couple years ago and the photo links no longer work in that thread. https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/my-phoam-phraxionator.9354/
It is essentially a protein skimmer for ponds. If you browse through Ethan's thread you'll see many variations of the design, but the basic idea is to produce foam and eliminate it from the water stream. The foam of course is essentially a concentration of DOCs.
Here is a picture of a glass of my pond water compared to a glass of residual liquid foam after the bubbles have all popped and all that is left is the concentrated DOCs.

And the same glass next to the "protein skimmer" itself

And the unit itself just before I installed it.

Of course as the saying goes, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and this is just one concept of a protein skimmer, there other ways you could build one without using internal media or a tower, but I personally like the dual function of this design and it certainly works very well, and, from what I can tell, it is the most popular "protein skimmer" design for ponds.

 

[MitchM]

I've used many protein skimmers of various designs in the past.
Try doing some water tests on the skimmate.
I've found 24ppm phosphorus in the skimmate in the the past. It's a high concentration, but not excessive, compared to the total amount that would be existing in the pond.
Skimmate unfortunately also removes beneficial bacteria and plankton. That's not a good thing.

If a skimmer is working for someone, great, just don't forget the contribution that bacteria makes to breaking down doc's.
I think that skimmers are better aerators which enable bacteria to their job, compared to any benefits realized from skimmate removal.


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[MitchM]

Mucky, do you have some sort of media in your skimmer contact chamber?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I've used many protein skimmers of various designs in the past.
Try doing some water tests on the skimmate.
I've found 24ppm phosphorus in the skimmate in the the past. It's a high concentration, but not excessive, compared to the total amount that would be existing in the pond.
Skimmate unfortunately also removes beneficial bacteria and plankton. That's not a good thing.
If a skimmer is working for someone, great, just don't forget the contribution that bacteria makes to breaking down doc's.
I think that skimmers are better aerators which enable bacteria to their job, compared to any benefits realized from skimmate removal.
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Mitch there was a number of reasons I decided to build this particular Phoam Phraxionator design, but the main reason was that it also works as trickle biological filter. Had it not produced any foam at all it still would have fulfilled that function.
As for removing DOCs you can see it works quite well, but I installed it the first spring after I built my pond and before I had my trickle water change system in place. You can see in the pictures the pond water has that green tinge typical of new ponds, As that suspended algae started dying off the water became rich in DOCs and it produced a large quantity of foam. Same thing happens in the spring every year before I turn on my trickle water change system, when all plant mater that was left over from the previous year starts to break down the Phraxionator starts producing a lot of foam again. So I have a pretty good way of telling the level of DOCs in my pond just by the foam production of this device. Of course heat and humidity levels also play some part in the foam production as bubbles are somewhat more resistant to form on hot dry days then they are on cool humid days, and even the time of the day has some bearing on foam production. (cooler and more humid in the mornings compared to hot and dry in the afternoon)

Anyway, getting back to the point, you can see that the design of this thing operates like an aerobic biological trickle filter much the same way a Bakki shower does, it also operates quite well as a protein skimmer, and with very minor modifications it could easily be converted into an anaerobic nitrate reducing tower like the one Meyers linked to. So the three designs are really quite similar.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Mucky, do you have some sort of media in your skimmer contact chamber?

Yes it is filled with a mix of plastic media, a bunch of bio-balls I had kicking around from a pathetic old pressure filter I threw away, some PVC pipe cut into short sections, and some dollar store hair curlers. Ethan says certain types of media work better then others for foam production, but my mix of media seems to be working fine and from what I can tell, by looking at the media at the end of the year when I clean it out, the PVC pieces seem to grow the best bacteria culture.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

the PVC pieces seem to grow the best bacteria culture.

I have run across this same observation in several independent research papers on biofilm. PVC must have a microscopic surface very conducive to adhesion.

 

[MitchM]

I use the name Phoam Phraxionator out of respect for Ethan's long standing thread in Koiphen that sparked my interest in building one. http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?107532-How-to-make-a-phoam-phraxionator-1300-1500-gph
...

I have read a lot of Ethan's post. He seems like a nice guy, but I see nothing original in his DIY design.
Assigning a new product design is not warranted.

DOC's will adhere to microbubbles because of water tension. That's it.
Bubble size, contact time, water density, collection cup. Variations of those things are all that's required.
If you like it, great, if others like it, great.
All bacteria need is well oxygenated water. Skimmers are not a requirement, just as heating a pond is not required.
Some people enjoy the activities involved with heating and filtering thier pond. No problem there. It's just not a requirement as some methods suggest.
That's all.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

the PVC pieces seem to grow the best bacteria culture.

Was I surprised when I saw this. I can't imagine a much better surface for biofilm growth than this.

Microscopic view of PVC surface-

 

[MitchM]

Was I surprised when I saw this. I can't imagine a much better surface for biofilm growth than this.

Microscopic view of PVC surface-
View attachment 87876

I thought that electrical charge was the most important factor for nutrient retention and biofilm growth.
?

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[Meyer Jordan]

I thought that electrical charge was the most important factor for nutrient retention and biofilm growth.
?

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It is for initial attachment. What I am impressed with is the surface configuration. I wouldn't have imagined that the surface of PVC would possess voids in this abundance and size. Not to mention the SSA is probably greater than commonly reported.

 

[MitchM]

Is there any scale (size) available for that photo?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have run across this same observation in several independent research papers on biofilm. PVC must have a microscopic surface very conducive to adhesion.

Interesting.
Besides the obvious brown staining, indicative of good bacteria growth I see on the PVC, I notice the surface of the PVC media seems to be rougher and thinner then fresh PVC, like it was corroding or being eaten away. The other media seems to be smooth like new, and little obvious brown staining.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have read a lot of Ethan's post. He seems like a nice guy, but I see nothing original in his DIY design.
Assigning a new product design is not warranted.

DOC's will adhere to microbubbles because of water tension. That's it.
Bubble size, contact time, water density, collection cup. Variations of those things are all that's required.
If you like it, great, if others like it, great.
All bacteria need is well oxygenated water. Skimmers are not a requirement, just as heating a pond is not required.
Some people enjoy the activities involved with heating and filtering thier pond. No problem there. It's just not a requirement as some methods suggest.
That's all.

Keep in mind it's not a product, and no nothing about it is absolutely new, it is just a guy on a forum who coined a name for his particular filter design that has become popular. Probably much the same way the name Trickle Tower has become fixed in the mind of a certain forum member here.

I think a lot of people enjoy the activities involved with filtering their ponds. I don't know so much about heating? But I count myself one of those that enjoy the activities involved with filtering.
You mention the importance of oxygenating the water, I couldn't agree with you more. In fact I've always felt that good water circulation is first and foremost in importance to good filtration, and the reason that many ponds can get away without any sort of man made mechanical or biological filters. And of course good water circulation and good oxygenation usually go hand in hand, especially if you circulate the water through a (waterfall, fountain, stream, Bakki shower, etc...) So good circulation is the main connecting factor in good filtration no mater what system you use, be it commercial filtering products, DIY filters, or natural type filters (plants, waterfalls. anaerobic biological gravel beds, bogs, etc...)