Water changes in winter!

[koikeepr]

i have several ground plants that are salt sensitive, and I've seen the area where there is pond runoff not be as nice as the areas where the pond water doesn't touch (when I use salt).

By the way, koiguy, what I've always heard about continually salting a pond is that you create bacterias/parasites that can become immune to salt and when you need to use salt for a cure--that it may not always work. Always been told it's like that sort of antibiotic effect on humans. If you use them, when you need to kill a bug in your system, the bug might be immune to the antibiotic when needed.

I salt when needed, not all the time, personally. For example, I'll salt when i start up the pond, when i close it, or whenever I detect something happening in the pond. I do try to keep koi clay in there all the time, however, well....at least when i remember to replenish! I try! LOL!

Of course, I know plenty of people like you that always maintain some level of salt in the pond. Why do you feel like you continually need salt in the pond?

 

[koiguy1969]

salt levels at a plant safe level are merely to stimulate a healthy slime coat...but you double that or more to treat. there are benefits to the koi clay but i preferr the koi vital it does everything koi clay does but absorb ammonia... i have hung mesh bags of zeolite in my pond in good water flow or mesh planter pots that the filter return would pour thru, before installing the waterfall. and it supplies that light amber tint to your pond water you speak of, and helps hinder (not stop) alge growth. (alge is a plant like any other )

 

[koikeepr]

but a healthy fish already has a healthy slime coat. I guess that's my point of using salt all the time....

I've never tried the zeolite, tho have always been curious about it.

To be clear, am not saying it is wrong to use salt all the time. It's one of those things that some people do and some people don't. No wrong or right methodology, just a matter of preference.

 

[koiguy1969]

you are absolutely correct..a healthy fish should have a healthy slime coat. and that what does the most to keep them healthy. the salt just helps maintain it. a good thick slime coat is the number one deffence against parasites and external infections. i will say i have yet to see a parasite an ulcer or external infection (disease of any kind) in my ponds indoor or outdoor the only deaths i have seen were at the beak of a heron!! i dont think a good slime coat helped much there. as far as the zeolite your clay has some in it.

 

[Mrshkoiluver]

I personally do not use salt in my pond at all. I have read on some all koi forums that salt used all the time can make some bugs resistant and you have a harder time treating them. They also pointed out that salt is an irritant to the fish. That is why they produce more slime. This makes a lot of sense to me. I feel take care of the water and the water will take care of the fish and keep them in good health. So my preference is no salt. Also forgot! Adding salt to a pond for me is just one more thing to keep track of with testing.

 

[koiguy1969]

thats true and if i had a dedicated koi pond i would only use when treating but the levels of salt in a plant filled pond are minimal. its detrimental to plants long before its a concern with your fish.......its just a matter of prefference as Koikeepr said

 

[koikeepr]

i have heard the same thing MrsK. about the bugs becoming resistant to salt, which is why I only use when necessary. However, I've never heard that salt is an irritant to fish thusly creating the slimecoat.

 

[stroppy]

i keep reading stuff on zeolite ...and its suposed to be very good for lowering ammonia and had thought of giving it a try this winter ...untill i read you cant use it if you have salt in your pond ...because when it fills up with ammonia, the salt in your pond dumps it back into the water..every where i have looked says you cant use the two together ...just thought i would mention it ...dont know how true that is

 

[koiguy1969]

its true that salt in higher levels will release the ammonia from the zeolite, thats how you rejuvenate it, you soak it in a real strong salt water solution for 24 hours. and it is far more effective in unsalted ponds..you may only have to buy it once it lasts a long time with rejuvenating it every 2 weeks or so..exspecially handy in the spring while your waiting to build a good bacterial colony in your filter.. but i gotta add i do alot of things differently than most because i have the basement pond too and i have a completely operational filter all year round as my two filters share the same media, and the water is pumped between the two ponds and my fish dont have to go the winter/spring stress. etc..etc..

 

[DrDave]

I don't salt mine as a rule since I have a lot of water plants that I cultivate. That said, I have read where salt helps to enhance the colors in Koi. So if you were going to show them, maybe a week or 2 before you might salt the pond.

DoDad shows fish, maybe he can chime in and provide some wisdom here.

 

[CliffandJoann]

We add water everyday to our pond from early Spring to Fall...We don't have to add de-clor in our area.
We just throw the hose in every morning and run it for about 10 minutes
or so everyday. We estimate that this results in about 30 to 35% water changes each week.
The fish love those daily water changes. :fish2:

There is nothing scientific in our pond keeping. We also add 20 lbs of salt each fall...
We just bought the salt yesterday, and we gradually add the salt over a three week
period. The salt is most likely all gone by mid April (in time to start adding water plants)because we start doing
the daily water changes in mid-March.

Our main pond is about 2500 gallons with a 200 gallon biological pond.
Joann

 

[DrDave]

Joann
These are not water exchanges, only additions. You want to remove the more dense water from the bottom and replace it with fresh water. Solids build up in the lower part of ponds and these solids are what you don't want.

 

[CliffandJoann]

Doc Dave,

Joann
These are not water exchanges, only additions. You want to remove the more dense water from the bottom and replace it with fresh water. Solids build up in the lower part of ponds and these solids are what you don't want.

The water from the bottom of the pond is continually removed with the bottom drain.
We have a gravity fed system, after the water leaves the pond (via the bottom drain) it goes through three
filter tubs, then travels under ground 18 feet away to a biological 200 gallon pond. The water
travels through the biological pond getting scrubbed along the way through all the vegetation and lava rocks in the bio pond.
The water then exits the bio pond and travels back again via underground
and re-enters the main pond under a small dock we have in the back of the pond.
When we add the water daily in seeps over the top in the low areas, thus fresh water
is added and the old water is exiting over the pond.
We measured one time how many gallons we add to the pond in the 10 to 15 minutes,
that we run the hose...that is how
we estimated that we exchange approximately 30 to 35% each week.

 

[koikeepr]

Hmm. The water doesn't sound removed through your bottom drain, it is simply recirculated through your filter. The doc sounds 100% right.

Unless that water is exiting your pond all day, and I'm not sure how you'd do that, it just recirculation. What am I missing here?

 

[DrDave]

Joann
Dodad is the expert on these, but a TDS Meter tests for solids in the water. I just bought one on Ebay for less than $20 with shipping. I think this should be one of the tests performed to see how you are doing with your water quality.
It doubles as a salt concentretion meter so at that price it is a bargain.
The only filter that will do what you are describing and work is a RO filter.