UV light recommendations

[sissy]

My pond always suffers from neglect but still thrives .Water is clear fish are healthy and the clean house or they may starve .

 

[Mitakuye]

Cyanobacteria are easily introduced to body of water by wildlife transfer, most notably aquatic fowl and there are species of cyanobacteria that will grow in most any environment.
What @tbendl has often referred to as 'Pond Snot' is quite likely a cyanobacteria (bluegreen algae)

Exactly, it must be transferred. All of these algaes are not toxic and the toxic algaes also occur in Plankton heavy ponds as well as livestock tanks. These algaes are also common to be found in aquaculture ponds and must be addressed, where Plankton populations are very active.

If these toxic algaes are so prominent, then many more sicknesses would occur even for backyard ponds with dogs or other animals often drinking from it.

Just because something can happen, does not mean it will happen.

No reason to be hysterical about it so to prove your point.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Excellent video. At 3:00 to 3:10 the question is answered: that zooplankton feed on phytoplankton. Since a UV kills this phytoplankton there is no source of food to establish a community of zooplankton, thereby interrupting the natural food web.

First of all, are you seriously insinuating my fish are at risk of starving if I don't have green water?
Secondly, although phytoplankton are very important link in the cycle of life in the oceans and life on Earth, they are not quite as crucial to fish in a backyard pond. Besides, an established backyard pond should have plenty of other types of algae growing all over it's surfaces for zooplankton to feast on. Something that the deep oceans don't have much of, comparatively speaking.

As far as floating algae is concerned, I would not particularly want any of this since the vast majority of species are blue-green algae which are known to be quite toxic.

Thirdly, I said "free floating" algae, meaning suspended algae, as opposed to algae that grows on stuff.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

First of all, are you seriously insinuating my fish are at risk of starving if I don't have green water?
Secondly, although phytoplankton are very important link in the cycle of life in the oceans and life on Earth, they are not quite as crucial to fish in a backyard pond. Besides, an established backyard pond should have plenty of other types of algae growing all over it's surfaces for zooplankton to feast on. Something that the deep oceans don't have much of, comparatively speaking.

No, what I am saying is that in ponds that avoid having planktonic algae, supplemental feeding is required regardless of fish load.
Zoo plankton does not feed on sessile (attached algae).

No reason to be hysterical about it so to prove your point.

Not being hysterical, just clarifying the point that Cyanobacteria can and does occur in backyard ponds. That is not to imply that it can be expected.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

No, what I am saying is that in ponds that avoid having planktonic algae, supplemental feeding is required regardless of fish load.
Zoo plankton does not feed on sessile (attached algae).

I will concede that running a UV light could marginally reduce the number of zooplankton in a pond, but everything else you are saying is conjecture.
Zooplankton in the open ocean have no choice but to feed on phytoplankton (free floating algae) and each other (after all what else is there?) but where they have access to "sessile" algae and other "sessile" organisms I'm quite sure they will feed on them too. However I'm will quite willing to be proven wrong if you have access to some scientific, peer reviewed articles that prove that no members of the zooplankton group can feed on any "sessile" organisms.

 

[MitchM]

Exactly, it must be transferred. All of these algaes are not toxic and the toxic algaes also occur in Plankton heavy ponds as well as livestock tanks. These algaes are also common to be found in aquaculture ponds and must be addressed, where Plankton populations are very active.

If these toxic algaes are so prominent, then many more sicknesses would occur even for backyard ponds with dogs or other animals often drinking from it.
...

I'm surprised you keep referring to cyanobacteria as an algae when you seem to be concerned about the correct terminology of things.
-and cyanobacteria is found in every aquatic environment, it's when quantities exceed a certain level that the health of other organisms can be endangered.

 

[Mitakuye]

I'm surprised you keep referring to cyanobacteria as an algae when you seem to be concerned about the correct terminology of things.

Is another nomenclature of cyanobacteria often "blue green algae" as well? Yes, this originates from a bacterium and is technically not an algae by current standards.

-and cyanobacteriais found in every aquatic environment, it's when quantities exceed a certain level that the health of other organisms can be endangered.

This is not in contention. Below is what was written and I think is the subject of your response.

If these toxic algaes are so prominent, then many more sicknesses would occur even for backyard ponds with dogs or other animals often drinking from it.

@MitchM , have you observed increased sickness of animals of related to backyard pond owners whose ponds are more dominant in macroalgae, in particular cyanobacteria? I have not.

 

[Mitakuye]

Not being hysterical, just clarifying the point that Cyanobacteria can and does occur in backyard ponds. That is not to imply that it can be expected.

Appears you are now backpedaling, explained in following post.

 

[Mitakuye]

As far as floating algae is concerned, I would not particularly want any of this since the vast majority of species are blue-green algae which are known to be quite toxic.

Cyanobacteria are easily introduced to body of water by wildlife transfer, most notably aquatic fowl and there are species of cyanobacteria that will grow in most any environment.

Not being hysterical, just clarifying the point that Cyanobacteria can and does occur in backyard ponds. That is not to imply that it can be expected.

You do "not particularly want any of this since majority of the blue-green algaes are quite toxic" yet you are "not implying that it can be expected" even though it can be "easily introduced to water and grow in most any environment".

Do I have you correct?

 

[MitchM]

Is another nomenclature of cyanobacteria often "blue green algae" as well? Yes, this originates from a bacterium and is technically not an algae by current standards.



This is not in contention. Below is what was written and I think is the subject of your response.




@MitchM , have you observed increased sickness of animals of related to backyard pond owners whose ponds are more dominant in macroalgae, in particular cyanobacteria? I have not.

Right. Cyanobacteria is only called toxic algae because of it's appearance to the untrained eye.
However, when people refer to it as algae, they may then try and use an algae killing approach, instead of what is really needed, either a serious reduction in excess nutrients and an increase in water flow or an application of an antibiotic that will not kill off the nitrifying bacteria at the same time.

As for your other question about cyanobacteria levels in ponds with a dominate level of macro algae, no, I haven't seen any sick animals. It takes an extremely neglected pond to become overrun with cyanobacteria.

 

[Mitakuye]

Right. Cyanobacteria is only called toxic algae because of it's appearance to the untrained eye.
However, when people refer to it as algae, they may then try and use an algae killing approach, instead of what is really needed, either a serious reduction in excess nutrients and an increase in water flow or an application of an antibiotic that will not kill off the nitrifying bacteria at the same time.

As for your other question about cyanobacteria levels in ponds with a dominate level of macro algae, no, I haven't seen any sick animals. It takes an extremely neglected pond to become overrun with cyanobacteria.

In my defense, Sir, I was not the first to introduce cyanobacteria as a blue green algae and being toxic in this thread. The terms were defined prior to my "toxic algae" description reference so I continued as such.

I do agree with your final assessment and observation.

 

[Lisak1]

For instance if you were skateboarding and fall and break your arm your health care provider (doctor) is only likely to treat your symptom (the broken arm), and leave the cause (skateboading) up to you.

A broken arm isn't a symptom - pain would be the symptom. The broken arm would be the cause of the pain. The skateboarding has nothing to do with the medical equation. If it did, then everyone who used a skateboard would end up with the same broken arm.

The better analogy is treating a fever instead of locating the cause of the fever. Or treating a diet related medical issue (obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes - take your pick) with a drug instead of addressing the diet of the affected individual. That's a symptomatic approach to health care.

Same applies to pond care - instead of asking "why am I having this issue?" we run to buy a quick fix (the pond drug). And much like drugs, the quick fix comes with unwanted side effects. Which then leads to more quick fixes and so on and so on and so on.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You do "not particularly want any of this since majority of the blue-green algaes are quite toxic" yet you are "not implying that it can be expected" even though it can be "easily introduced to water and grow in most any environment".

Do I have you correct?

I stand by exactly what I stated except to add that it is not a common place occurrence as it would be in a larger natural body of water where it is typically seasonal, but if the conditions are favorable, it can appear in any body of water, fresh or saline.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I will concede that running a UV light could marginally reduce the number of zooplankton in a pond, but everything else you are saying is conjecture.
Zooplankton in the open ocean have no choice but to feed on phytoplankton (free floating algae) and each other (after all what else is there?) but where they have access to "sessile" algae and other "sessile" organisms I'm quite sure they will feed on them too. However I'm will quite willing to be proven wrong if you have access to some scientific, peer reviewed articles that prove that no members of the zooplankton group can feed on any "sessile" organisms.

Since zooplankton in the ocean, and larger bodies of freshwater also contain a certain level of animal larvae. Sessile algae becomes a possible source of food for these particular organisms. However, in a typical garden pond, this form of zooplankton is rarely observed.
There is no one scientific study devoted to whether or not sessile algae is part of the zooplankton diet, but there are many that indicate this as supporting of the subject of the research paper. For more information search 'zooplankton diet' using Google Scholar.
Several non peer-reviewed sources can be found. Below are just a sample.

Zooplankton feed on bacterioplankton, phytoplankton, other zooplankton (sometimes cannibalistically), detritus (or marine snow) and even nektonic organisms. As a result,zooplankton are primarily found in surface waters where food resources (phytoplankton or other zooplankton) are abundant.

Zooplankton
Wikipedia.com

Zooplankton eat phytoplankton. If the population of phytoplankton drops, zooplankton starve and die, and so do the animals who eat the zooplankton.
Without phytoplankton, ocean animals would have little food, and there would be fewer fish and other animals for us to catch and eat.

Introduction to Oceanography
https://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/tnoyes/Units/01A_Unit1-Intro_to_Oceanography.pdf

Zooplankton is made up of microscopic animals and animal-like living organisms. They cannot make their own food. They are consumers. They live by eating phytoplankton or other zooplankton.

River-Lab 5 GuideManual –Plankton Pages
http://river-lab.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/RL5-Lab-Plankton-Pages-2009-for-2013.pdf

 

[MitchM]

In my defense, Sir, I was not the first to introduce cyanobacteria as a blue green algae and being toxic in this thread. The terms were defined prior to my "toxic algae" description reference so I continued as such.

I do agree with your final assessment and observation.

No need to defend.
Lots of discussions here include general terms; "blue green algae", "bog", "my water test levels are fine".
Eventually, if a member is interested enough we can get into clarifying the term. It's not constructive to go down the route of who's right and who's wrong.
It's just that you switched from correct terminology to general terminology. Usually it's the other way around.