Trying to simplfy a pond filter layout

[Mucky_Waters]

The two biggest requirements we have are no waterfall filter and underground. We want nothing above ground.

I like to having my filter system hidden too, that's why I built a filter room to house everything, but if you didn't want to go that far I refer you back to my first post about building a filter pit to keep everything under ground then cover it with a deck. With a bottom drain I'd want to gravity feed it to a settling tank or sieve before the pump. I think you'll have a hard time running a bottom drain and a skimmer off of one pump. It could be done, but it would be hard to get the flow balanced just right between the two. It would be easier to just use two pumps.

 

[texmaster]

I like to having my filter system hidden too, that's why I built a filter room to house everything, but if you didn't want to go that far I refer you back to my first post about building a filter pit to keep everything under ground then cover it with a deck. With a bottom drain I'd want to gravity feed it to a settling tank or sieve before the pump. I think you'll have a hard time running a bottom drain and a skimmer off of one pump. It could be done, but it would be hard to get the flow balanced just right between the two. It would be easier to just use two pumps.

What was the sequence for your pump? Did you put it before or after the filter? I'm trying to use one pump 6000gph to handle 2 waterfalls

My list so far:


Stone

750



Bottom Drain

220

http://www.michigankoi.com/Aerated-Bottom-Drain-Bottom-Drains-sc-349.html

Lights

75

http://www.pondliner.com/p-642-alpine-16w-led-pond-lights-set-of-3.aspx

Pump

329

http://www.pondliner.com/p-1548-pondmaster-hy-drive-6000-pump.aspx

Filter

420

http://www.pondliner.com/p-2638-oase-filtoclear-4000-pond-filter.aspx

WaterFall

150

http://www.hardscapematerials.com/universal-waterfall-diffuser.html

Skimmer

289

http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Sup...s/Pondmaster-Skimmer-Pro-5000?partner=froogle

Pipe tubing

200

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042L52C4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AIG8MEO5YMPVV

Fittings

150



Pond Liner 20x20

406

http://www.pondliner.com/p-963-25-x-25-firestone-45-mil-epdm-pond-liner.aspx

Pond Underlay

140

http://www.pondliner.com/p-1272-25-x-25-pond-liner-underlay-kit.aspx

Pond pump aeration

140

http://www.michigankoi.com/Deep-Water-Air-Pumps-Aeration-sc-325.html



3269

 

[Mucky_Waters]

The main part of my system is gravity flow, I have a 3" bottom drain that gravity flows to a 100 gal vortex settling tank, then through a 50 gal tank with Matala material and savio springflo bio filter media, then into another 50 gal tank with a homemade cartridge type filter made of quilt batting for filtering out the fine suspended particles in the water, then after the water gravity flows through all that the I have the pump which pumps the water to the waterfall and back to the pond.
The skimmer is connected directly to another pump which flows through a UV unit and then a foam fractionator and into my second tank with the bio material and joins with the main water flow.
One thing I'd like to point out about your pump choice you have in your list is that it is rated at 675 watts! Although I have a little less water flow in my system, I have two pumps, a 3,500 gph one rated at 120 watts, and a 1,200 gph one rated at 160 watts, and a UV unit that burns 50 watts when its on, for a total of 330 watts, less than half of what your one pump burns. It`s just something to consider if you are concerned about the ongoing costs of running your pond.
If you really feel you need that much water flow, you might look at some of the external pumps as they are usually more efficient.
To get an idea of what a 3,500 gph water flow looks like in a waterfall here is a video clip of my pond.

 

[texmaster]

The main part of my system is gravity flow, I have a 3" bottom drain that gravity flows to a 100 gal vortex settling tank, then through a 50 gal tank with Matala material and savio springflo bio filter media, then into another 50 gal tank with a homemade cartridge type filter made of quilt batting for filtering out the fine suspended particles in the water, then after the water gravity flows through all that the I have the pump which pumps the water to the waterfall and back to the pond.
The skimmer is connected directly to another pump which flows through a UV unit and then a foam fractionator and into my second tank with the bio material and joins with the main water flow.
One thing I'd like to point out about your pump choice you have in your list is that it is rated at 675 watts! Although I have a little less water flow in my system, I have two pumps, a 3,500 gph one rated at 120 watts, and a 1,200 gph one rated at 160 watts, and a UV unit that burns 50 watts when its on, for a total of 330 watts, less than half of what your one pump burns. It`s just something to consider if you are concerned about the ongoing costs of running your pond.
If you really feel you need that much water flow, you might look at some of the external pumps as they are usually more efficient.
To get an idea of what a 3,500 gph water flow looks like in a waterfall here is a video clip of my pond.

Apprecaite the good info. If I go with 2 pumps how can I hook them to the filter system and still maintain the lift needed for each waterfall? Woudln't the filter impeede the water flow too much before reaching the waterfalls?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

pprecaite the good info. If I go with 2 pumps how can I hook them to the filter system and still maintain the lift needed for each waterfall? What is the lift on your waterfall? What is the lift of your waterfalls anyway? Flowing water to waterfalls is pretty easy, but you have to figure what sort of filter/pump system you are going to use (build) first.

Wouldn't the filter impede the water flow too much before reaching the waterfalls? Yes and no. Almost any filter will eventually get plugged up enough to impede flow, even that submersible pump you have picked out that has the built in grate in the housing which has a rudimentary mechanical filter. Given enough time and neglect those grates can get plugged up with enough gunk the the water flow would be impeded.
In the case of my particular system, I can easily go a couple weeks without cleaning my quilt batting filter, and if I eliminated it (I don't have to have it), I could easily go a month. And if I eliminated the screen catch-all at the top of my settlement chamber (I don't really have to have that either), I could go a the whole season. Thing is I probably couldn't have as crystal clear water, and I'd end up with more sediment in my pond and my bio-filter media would get dirtier and not be as effective.

And the other thing is, in the case of my gravity feed system, the pump really never has any impedance, it pumps the water out of a reservoir and directly to the waterfall, the water gravity flows into that reservoir after going through the filters. If I ever let the filters get too plugged that it impedes the water flowing into the pump reservoir and the reservoir runs too dry, the pump will start sucking air, then it's a done deal, the pump with lose prime and the whole system will basically stop. I don't let that happen.

Check out the specs on this pump Sequence 750 spec sheet. Two of those would have more flow and better lift , at less than half the power consumption, than your one submersible pump.

You are planning on installing a bottom drain, bottom drains work best in a gravity feed situation, most gravity feed system usually have the water flowing directly to a settlement chamber, or a sieve. Since you are looking for a small footprint, you probably would be best to go with a sieve. They both need to be installed below water level (at least partially), so that means you'll probably need a filter pit of some sort unless your pond is elevated. I will warn you though, sieves are not cheap.
I'd also stay away from pressure filters, they don't really work very well and are way over priced for what little they do do.

Here's what I would suggest using some of the component you have already selected and trying to keep things as simple as possible.
System (1) Skimmer with built in filter - External pump installed in filter pit - Waterfall 1 - Back to Pond
System (2) Bottom drain - Sieve in filter pit - External pump installed in filter pit - Waterfall 2 - Back to Pond

 

[texmaster]

Check out the specs on this pump Sequence 750 spec sheet. Two of those would have more flow and better lift , at less than half the power consumption, than your one submersible pump.

You are planning on installing a bottom drain, bottom drains work best in a gravity feed situation, most gravity feed system usually have the water flowing directly to a settlement chamber, or a sieve. Since you are looking for a small footprint, you probably would be best to go with a sieve. They both need to be installed below water level (at least partially), so that means you'll probably need a filter pit of some sort unless your pond is elevated. I will warn you though, sieves are not cheap.
I'd also stay away from pressure filters, they don't really work very well and are way over priced for what little they do do.

Here's what I would suggest using some of the component you have already selected and trying to keep things as simple as possible.
System (1) Skimmer with built in filter - External pump installed in filter pit - Waterfall 1 - Back to Pond
System (2) Bottom drain - Sieve in filter pit - External pump installed in filter pit - Waterfall 2 - Back to Pond

thanks for the great info! Would one of these work for the filter pit?

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Nexus_Eazy_200_300.html

 

[Mucky_Waters]

thanks for the great info! Would one of these work for the filter pit?

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Nexus_Eazy_200_300.html

Certainly. Although I'm not familiar with that particular filter so I can't say too much about it, but I've seen a lot of people in koiphen forum using different versions of them and they seem to be happy with them. Without a doubt it is way better than the pressure filter you were thinking about.
Before you start building and buying anything you should make a detailed sketch of your proposed pond and filter system and post it in several forums for people to critique and help you refine your final plan before you start, you'll likely get some much better ideas than I have given you, and if you have any major flaws they'll point those out too.