TRICKLE TOWERS AND SHOWER FILTERS

[addy1]

My bog must be doing fine at biocoversion, mechanical and plain old filtering, all water tests, when I do them, are perfect. Little to no algae, no green water. It keeps me, my pond, over 200 fish, frogs, birds, tads, water bugs and plants happy.

 

[Mmathis]

My bog must be doing fine at biocoversion, mechanical and plain old filtering, all water tests, when I do them, are perfect. Little to no algae, no green water. It keeps me, my pond, over 200 fish, frogs, birds, tads, water bugs and plants happy.

I love your set-up, ADDY, but you have all those streams and catch basin areas that act as TT's. Unfortunately, I've got limited space and a flat Louisiana landscape.

 

[crsublette]

Good to think and plan ahead. Very good.

With the two filters, TT and bogs, when comparing them two on their own standing, then the bog definitely does better at mechanical filtrations since one feature of the bog is being an upflow gravel filter. The TT, on its own, simply just allows water to trickle down material rather than seperating particulate waste.

A problem with Shower Towers is the high flow of water showering, or pounding of water, over material chops up particulate waste. This towers agitation does create a higher chance of creating what is called "dom foam". TT can potentially create the same occurence, except just a tiny amount of foam. The water really should be pre-filter before entering a shower tower or trickle tower so to try to reduce the creation of additional particulate waste chopped up. All pond water will eventually have DOMs, (dissolved organic matter), that through simple agitation from waterfalls and fountains will create this foam. Water changes and skimmers helps to remove the DOMs and also can create a foam fractionator device that allows the foam to exit the water prior to entering the pond. Foam fractionators are essentially a tower filter with a little plumbing change at the end where water enters the pond. Example: Barrel shower with foam fractionator. However, I have been told any type of bio-film created by bacteria will slightly deter the ability to capture the foam.

 

[addy1]

The stream runs around 4 hours a day, I am sure it helps a little, low flow pump, around 500 gph. The main filtering is the bog

 

[gardengimp]

Unfortunately, I've got limited space and a flat Louisiana landscape.

^^ this, except mine is flat Florida landscape.

I've been noodling over an idea based on something I read Waterbug write. It was about streams not needing to be wide if they wrapped back on themselves.

A few observations about water in a flat landscape.

(1) an inch makes a ton of difference to water flow, or sheet flow
(2) water sticks to other bits of water and flows together finding the path of least resistance

So, my not well thought out idea is to use some of that cheap plastic guttering as a 'water stream trough' in the bog area. I would have a section start at the low end (this would be where the water enters from the pump, go to a 'bird bath' at the high end, another section exit the bird bath back towards the low end into another 'bird bath', with the final section exiting the bird bath back to the high end and dump into the bog. [the water would then make it's way through the bog to the low end and dump into the pond]. I am thinking to fill the guttering with timberlite rock (decorative volcanic rock) or feather rock. I'm thinking it will look like a miniature switch back stream inside the bog. The difference in level between the start of the stream and the final exit to the bog doesn't need to be much more than 3" (I think). By it being in the bog, the gravel of the bog can be used for the elevation changes.

Just some thoughts I've been working on, perhaps they will give you an idea! The 'bird bath' idea is just some collection point that water comes into and leaves from that is seamed with the guttering. Of course, you could skip that part completely and just put bends in the guttering. I am wanting to get a more song bird friendly water area incorporated into the bog and thought this would be a way to accomplish that. A small bird bath, a pot with a lotus, such things.

 

[Waterbug]

We are trained to think streams require slope, but they don't. Take a trough say 6" wide x 1" deep and say 1 mile long. Lay it perfectly level. Fill it with water. Open any of the 4 sides and what happens? Almost all the water will fall out that side. So if you open one of the 6" ends the entire 1 mile of water will flow out that end. As you pump water into the other end it will flow down the entire 1 mile length and fall out the open end. No slope, so either end of the 1 mile long trough could be opened so water could run in either direction you chose. Or open both ends, plumb the water into the middle and water will run in both directions.

Flat streams are not going to look like white water mountain streams however, but streams none the less. And there are some tricks to making at least short falls or rapids along the way for short distances.

This same concept allows for some Escher type streams. Like a stream that goes around the perimeter of the pond, round and round like the groove in a record until falling into the pond. A 10'x10' pond would have a 40' stream if wrapped once, 80' wrapped twice, etc. You can have a very long stream, or bog, or veggie filter in the space a rock edge would use. And imo look better.

 

[Mmathis]

COOL! I like Escher!

Would love to be able to make an extended stream in my small space, but don't want it to look cramped/forced. Ideas?

 

[crsublette]

Haha, cool picture. It reminds me of some drawings I used to do to play tricks of depth perception on the eye.

Yeah, the stream depth and suction at one end would create an extremely small elevation change and any slight current by pump and wind would be enough to cause water movement.

 

[Mmathis]

Switchbacks: how tight can you make them? Do they work well with streams that have a small amt. of slope?

 

[jupiter1]

Switchbacks: how tight can you make them? Do they work well with streams that have a small amt. of slope?

Per Waterbugs post above I would think they can have zero slope as long as the open end can handle the amount of water being pumped in. Same for the bends and corners , as long as the entire system especialy the open end can handle the volume of water your good. The laws of motion come into play here ." an object moving in a straight line tends to move in a straight line unless acted upon by another force"

So our body of water moving thru the straight section of stream has momentem . If it comes to a 180 degree bend its going to resist that change in direction. If the flow volume is great enough and the stream shallow enough it will tend to pile up before finaly changing direction and can over flow the bank of the stream. Its a blancing act.

 

[Mmathis]

I know there are "formulas" for figuring how much filtration is needed, but in general..... My 3000 gal pond with bog, some plants, and light to med. fish load, should I strictly follow a "formula" if all I want is supplemental bio-filtration?? Assuming, of course, that my chemical levels stay within good parameters....

I have a couple of ideas for a TT, but neither of them would involve a HUGE complex of "stuff." One idea is to use vertical PVC pipe, filled with media (would drill holes to aid in adding O2 to the water in the column). I'm getting creative with this idea and it's almost sounding like too much fun . I want to incorporate the PVC into the landscape/hard scape, paint it, and have it look like a sculpture! Still in the VERY early idea/design phase, so have lots to think about, figure out, and plan for. Not sure how much "bio-functioning" this would add, but guess that depends on diameter and length of PVC?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

COOL! I like Escher!

Would love to be able to make an extended stream in my small space, but don't want it to look cramped/forced. Ideas?

Maybe you'll like this then.
https://www.youtube....h?v=0v2xnl6LwJE

 

[Mmathis]

Ha, ha!

 

[kougs]

exactly the question I posted on another forum. some replies below.

1) A foam fractionator removes dissolved organic content(docs) and a trickle tower is a bio filter so they do two different things.

So to answer your question:
If you have doc problems then do more water changes or install a working foam fractionator.
If you have ammonia problems then install more filtration (or decrease your fish load). A trickle tower is fine or any of the other bio filters or a combo of filters.

Is this just a general question or is there an issue in your pond that you are trying to address?

2) I would go for the most bang for the buck option, if you're already building. Do a shower with a foam fractionator tee placed in the outflow, and kill both birds with one stone.

My shower with FF tee on the outflow has just begun to produce some foam after being in operation over 6 months. The reason (I think) is that I've reduced my water changes just a bit with the reduced activity and feeding of cooler weather. It still doesn't produce much foam, but I know it is designed properly now.

3) here's the 'skinny' on your question:

a trickle tower has a completely different function from a protein skimmer ( foam fractionator). One acts as primarily a biological filter, breaking down nitrogenous wastes to less toxic forms and the other separates out molecules of protein, starches, sugars and dyes and traps them in a more easily removed foam. So one addesses the presence and build up of inorganic pollutants and the other, inorganic pollutants.
You pond is a closed system and over time, builds both inorganic nitrogenous and organic wastes. Some would say 'ammonia' and 'organics'. But in truth, this is a production line of inorganic and organic waste. And the many systems and tools we use simply ways to reduce or remove different forms and levels of degradation of these organics and inorganics ( including gaseous forms).

There are true competing systems however. And example of that would be protein skimmers and chemical absorption products. They both do the same thing and therefor compete with one other and reduce the efficiency of one another.

I did a paper on this subject on one of these boards awhile ago which separated out the two families of pollutants and their many sub sets as biology in the pond acts upon them. I'll repost it on ZNA America at some point these weekend. JR

4) Over the decades I've played with both, I've found FF's to be negatively influenced by the barometer.

In your neck of the woods TT's can make a great cooling tower this time of year.

Since going to TT's, RO water in a constant trickle system 24/7 I no longer have any foam production in my
clarity unit. So I have pulled out their bio barrels media and replaced it with drip rod style one inch bio balls.

like so much that is koi, pond size, stocking levels, fine tuned filtration can determine the need for either.

What I have found with my low stocking and attention to ORP is that it is not (FF) needed.

 

[Mmathis]

Is this just a general question or is there an issue in your pond that you are trying to address?

Just a general question. Always searching for concise info 'cause I'm in the learning phase of ponding, and in my looking around, I find I'm always left with questions....