trickle filters

[Shdwdrgn]

Waterbug - thanks for the info, but this is a new (bigger) pond, with larger filters, and the intent to have a much higher fish load. I don't really have a history with this setup yet, other than it's doing fine with all the new baby fish. We shall see how it holds up as they grow larger.

 

[Waterbug]

The bottom line is testing ammonia. Really the only thing that can tell you if you have enough bio filtering no matter what kind filter, size, etc.

The bacteria does do better in darkness so covering the filter couldn't hurt. Normally string algae and other algae starts to grow in the filter if there's sun light so another reason to cover. Once started down the improvement path there's all kind of things you can do but a Skippy is a pretty poor bio filter so if you're looking to handle a serious fish load you might consider more reliable choices.

 

[Shdwdrgn]

Really, you think the skippy is a poor filter? I've never heard that before. Then again, I'm looking at diversifying my setup next year. I'm currently using box strapping as my media, but I want to add a layer of pipe pieces underneath to calm down the water flow, find something suitable for the top to capture the fines and polish the water, and get a bag of carbon going in there somewhere just to take care of any remaining nasties in the water. To me, the skippy design is great because it allows for a wide diversity of media to suit a particular setup.

 

[Waterbug]

Skippy is a great filter for hobby ponds for the reasons you gave. You get to have fun building it, swapping media, etc. Great fun. I don't think there is a better filter for having fun. Even the name is fun.

But for ammonia conversion submerged media is at the low end of ammonia conversion. And that that's with pretty clean water and no algae growth on the media. The opposite of what is normally found in water gardens. Nothing personal, studies just favor other filters and I go with that when talking about "higher fish loads" as you mentioned. If you're happy with a Skippy then super.

 

[Catfishnut]

Gordy -- um, I think I'm the person you recently posted the explanation for ... But I ALWAYS appreciate repetition! Repetition and pictures are my friends

Ha ha, sorry... Short term memory loss for me.

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

Shdwdrgn,

I would like to express that I am personally not a fan of the design principle behind a "Skippy" filter myself. My reasons for this stem from my own trials and errors (mostly errors) from long before I ever started investigating fish ponds and or garden ponds.

I started out trying to figure out the best way to keep live bait fish alive for catfishing. I kept my bait fish in a metal stock tank, you know the olbong, galvanized horse tanks. I could keep the water aerated fine, but couldn't keep it clean with all the bait fish I put in it. So I tried making a filtration system for this tank. Without realizing it, I actually created a "Skippy" type filter, but it was a bomb. I was pumping all the water and debris and all the minerals from the well water through the media and it constantly plugged up on me. I was able to obtain the media virtually for free from work, so replacing it was no problem there, but it was such a hassle to do so so often.

I learned a few things during this process. First, I going about it all wrong in trying to filter sediment and gunk with this type of media. Second, this type of filter is prone to becoming clogged up eventually if you happen to let dirty water get to it, even just a bit. Over time, it is going to clog. Third, at the time I was not aware of the benefits of nitrifying bacteria and wasn't even thinking about planning out a good habitat for them.

I made a lot of progress on my own, just experimenting with designs and whatever junk I could get for free or nearly so, but I was kind of spinning my wheels because I was missing a few key bits of knowledge.

Then I started reading this and that about fish ponds and Koi fish and how particular they can be about their water quality and what serious ponders were doing in this regard. Things started to make a lot of good sense to me, but I held on to some of my own ideas that I discovered on my way, because they worked for my specific challenge of raising (or at least maintaining) live bait - really dirty fish, compared to most.

Basically, it registered in my mind that a "Skippy" type bio-converter filter would only function properly if you could manage to supply it with "ultra-clean" water, that is water without any sediments or algae. Otherwise you run the same risk of clogging the bio-media and burying your beneficial bacteria in layers of muck, possibly depriving them of sufficient flow of the water carrying ammonia (for their food) and oxygen.

Well, that's about all. I merely wished to tell you of my own personal experiences so that you may have additional information to contemplate during your own planning stages. I don't intend to alter your opinion of the "Skippy" type filter. But, I would like you to be aware of specific design problems that I realized so that you may engineer those out in advance.

Good luck and enjoy it all!

P.S. Just have to ask you about your avatar or personal image (photo). Is that by any chance Maureen O'Hara from the movie "The Quiet Man"?

Gordy

 

[Shdwdrgn]

Gordy - My avatar is actually of myself, standing on my trebuchet. Yeah, its that big Here's a pic of the whole thing -- http://madsplatter.net/2011/pics/scotfest/index.php?show=img_6077.jpg

Regarding the filters, I guess some terminology would help. To me, a 'skippy' is a generic design, about as specific as saying 'biological filter'. The general concept is great... a 55-gal barrel with a bottom drain, a vertical inlet pipe ending with a swirler near the bottom, and the dirty water is pushed up through the media layers. In my opinion, this is the basis for any simple DIY biological filter system. It's a very simple design to build and it provides the framework for any combination of filtering techniques and media substrates.

Now with that being said, I have to agree that the scubbie pads used on the original skippy design page are just not a good idea, for exactly the reason you stated... they clog up almost immediately. My current filter is using a layer of scrubbies in the bottom, but I believe I'm going to remove them next year, and replace the bottom layer with bags of cut pipe, like a Doc filter (intended for initial coarse filtration and to slow down any turbulence in the water) My primary media is laundry bags full of plastic strapping tape, and this seems to work great. I've gotten snails in my filters, and they just love crawling around inside these bags.

I have another idea I'm playing with for pre-filtering. I want to remove the vertical pipe going to the swirler and taper it out to a 4" diameter pipe. This will give me a lot of space to drop in small packs of carbon and zeolite, plus a funnel-shaped screen to trap larger leaves and debris.

So what have you found works best for ammonia removal? Always love to hear about new ideas!

 

[koiguy1969]

opinions are based on personal experience, and heres mine....i have, do, and will continue to use my "skippy type" filters....my 2 filters perform the task of biofiltration exceptionally well. i run one on my outdoor pond and one on my basement pond....and maintain pristine water in both ponds. i also keep 200+ inches of fish, all koi except one 20" pieco and theyre fed twice a day and three times a day every other day. a skippy filter can use any type media, they merely suggest what they like to use. what makes a skippy is the container, and plumbing not the media. 6 - 7 months a year my fish are in the basement pond which is only 800 gals. theres currently in the range of 250 - 300 inches of fish in there. with one 55 gal upflow "skippy style" filter. my media has been transfered back and forth between the two filters for 4 years now. and ive never cleaned it. yet my water is gin clear in both ponds and the parameters are always ideal. i do get nitrate readings in the basement pond but theres no plants or alge of any kind in the pond to use up the nitrates. so a 55 gal water change is done every 4 days. just because some folks havent had any luck with a particular item doesnt mean others wont. i am quite happy, as are my fish with the water quality my filters provide in my ponds,... i will say i added flush valves to my filter builds,(skippys dont have them). thats the only cleaning my filters get except i will hose them out when the ponds get closed down.
i just want to add...this is my experience with my filters, i wouldnt be so presumptuous as to say what will or wont work for you, and your needs. i can only say what works for me. i imagine there may be contrary posting.and i'm not here to argue just relay my experience.
i agree that trickle filters are effective but they must be above pond level and are hard to hide on a "natural look" pond. and not everyone wants or can even incorporate a stream. because they nust be top fed and the water must exit thru the bottom...on a formal pond a trickle filter, or bakki shower would be my first choices because it can be hidden or atleast cosmetically appealing.

 

[Catfishnut]

Gordy - My avatar is actually of myself, standing on my trebuchet. Yeah, its that big Here's a pic of the whole thing -- http://madsplatter.n...ow=img_6077.jpg

Shdwdrgn,

So cool! You strike a great pose! I was looking all over the internet trying to locate clips from the movie "The Quiet Man" because I was sure that the pix was Maureen O'Hara in the movie! That is one of my many favorite movies and Maureen O'Hara does an excellent piece of acting in it. Not to mention that she is extremely beautiful. I hope you take that as a welcomed observation (compliment).

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

So what have you found works best for ammonia removal? Always love to hear about new ideas!

If you will pardon that I haven't put it into actual application use yet (with a bio-load) I am very hopeful of the Kaldnes K-3 bio-media in conjunction with Zeolite. With the Zeolite being placed after (downstream from) the bio-converter unit containing the Kaldnes media. The Zeolite being contained in a vessel like the bead filter in a water softener.

The Zeolite has a natural affinity to absorb many compounds and chemicals, ammonia being one of the main ones.

I did some research and calculated that a five gallon bucket of Zeolite has roughly the same suface area as 107 acres.

Between the Kaldnes media and the Zeolite, I am hopeful that I can dispose of a ton of ammonia. Not literally of course.

Gordy