Think I'm having an algae bloom?

[Priscilla]

Great information!

Thanks!

The pond really doesn't seem to have that many fish now, thanks to Mr. Heron. I have 13 total (only one is 8 inches), rest are below 3 inches.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, it would be nice if we could do a Dr. Dolittle trick on Mr. Heron so we can tell them which fish to eat and which not to eat.

 

[addy1]

Yeah, it would be nice if we could do a Dr. Dolittle trick on Mr. Heron so we can tell them which fish to eat and which not to eat.

I could get the heron to remove a few of the plain old orange ones, but then again they are pretty too. I rather protect them all

 

[HARO]

It's a proven fact that, when a heron looks at your pond, he doesn't see fish, he sees DOLLAR SIGNS! The one with the most $$ gets eaten first!
John

 

[Priscilla]

Hi All,

I finally got my water testing kit! Yes!

Here are my results:
PH 9
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate - 0

Still green water and it seems to be getting worse. I can barely see my fish - but I guess that means the heron can't see them either. There is lots of algae growing on the sides of the pond liner.

Any thoughts? The UV light is still off. I'm going to continue adding plants. I hate the green water ..... I know, I know, but I hate it. I want a nice clear pond.

Question - I've heard the word cycle being used a lot, does that mean that after a few weeks, my pond could, on its on own, cycle into a clear phase?

Thanks,

 

[Priscilla]

Just saw this on a search around PH levels:
Excessive algae can consume high levels of carbon dioxide in the pond water and raise the pH, sometimes dangerously high.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5895150_causes-high-ph-levels-ponds_.html#ixzz2st1bAlbt

I wonder if all the algae in my pond is raising the PH. I did the reading at night, which can also cause the reading to be higher. My water is filtered through the limestone core of the island, so its going to have a high PH anyways. I will test it around lunch time tomorrow and post the readings.

 

[crsublette]

Hi All,

I finally got my water testing kit! Yes!

Here are my results:
1) PH 9
2) Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate - 0

2) Still green water and it seems to be getting worse. I can barely see my fish - but I guess that means the heron can't see them either. There is lots of algae growing on the sides of the pond liner.
Any thoughts? 3) The UV light is still off. I'm going to continue adding plants. I hate the green water ..... I know, I know, but I hate it. 4) I want a nice clear pond.

5) Question - I've heard the word cycle being used a lot, does that mean that after a few weeks, my pond could, on its on own, cycle into a clear phase?

Thanks,

1) PH 9

Was that pH taken at late afternoon or near dusk?

This may help explain the high pH, but, more than likely, since you mentioned you're on a limestone island, your water just has a very high KH with little calcium in it. Test the pH again in the morning to be sure. If the morning pH test is still 9, then this means you have a good, solid, high level of alkalinity (as expressed by the KH test kit). With these liquid reactant tests, there is around a +/- .2 variance in accuracy; so, if your API liquid pH test kit says 9.0, then quite likely it is around 8.8~9.2. This is quite high, that is at the limit, and there is likely just an average to low concentration of calcium in the water, which is not really a problem in our context.

If your pH is 8.8~9.2, then the oyster shells and any other aragonite or calcium carbonate product will not help you unless the pH drops around .4~.6 points. These products stop dissolving in water with a pH above around 8.3~8.5. This is why my first question is important. If the pH turns out to be much lower in the morning, then the aforementioned product can still help.

I think it would be wise to obtain a KH test kit as well, made by API that was referenced above.



2) Ammonia - 0

2) Still green water and it seems to be getting worse. I can barely see my fish - but I guess that means the heron can't see them either. There is lots of algae growing on the sides of the pond liner.
Any thoughts?

Your green water and algae growing on the side is consuming the ammonia. This is why your ammonia test is 0.

Keep an eye on the algae growing on the side. If it becomes very thick long strands, then this is not good. A basic plastic brush toilet bowl scrubber can fix this by twirling the algae around, like spaghetti, to remove the thick long strands. Be sure it uses somewhat stiff, yet flexible, plastic brushes since you do not want to puncture your pond liner. Pull the algae off the brush and discard it and repeat the process. This type of algae is the most invasive type of weed in a pond and it has a quite strong tensile strength to the point you can almost make a rope out of it.

You are correct in that the thick green water will help with the heron problem.



3) The UV light is still off. I'm going to continue adding plants. I hate the green water ..... I know, I know, but I hate it.

If you turn on the UV light, then this will allow more Ammonia to be available for the algae on the side walls to grow even more. So, this is something to think about if you decide to turn on the UV.

The plants might just need time to adapt to the water conditions. As I mentioned earlier, for me, it took almost a month for the plants to adapt.



4) I want a nice clear pond.

Yep, most do.

Due to the type of filtration you are using, this is just the struggles that the pond will be experiencing. Since you want to do a bog, if you can get your bog project done, then this will help.

Slow, steady, major water changes will help, but stop doing the major water changes once it clears up. To do a slow, steady, major water change, then first remove 40% of the pond's water. Then, add new water at only a very slow flow, or near a tickle, into the pond, so that it takes about 12 hours or so to fill up the pond. If you have chlorine or chloramine in the water, then periodically dose the water is this is being doing, but, since you're on well water, then you likely do not need a dechlorinator. This water change is done slowly so to avoid shocking your fish's immune system. If the water change was done fast, then quite likely the pH change and/or water temperature will put the fish into a shock.



5) Question - I've heard the word cycle being used a lot, does that mean that after a few weeks, my pond could, on its on own, cycle into a clear phase?

"Cycle" or "Cycling" refers to the nitrification process. Nitrification process is the natural process referencing how Nature cleans the water and converts the ammonia pollution into plant soluble nutrients.

In your situation, this is called NPS (new pond syndrome). A pond has completed its cycle, NPS, once there is zero Ammonia and zero Nitrite and Nitrates are showing up on the test.

Honestly, ponds never stop "cycling". This is a vital part of Mother Nature's ecosystem since ammonia is always constantly produced by fish. However, the cycling is not, or should not be, as bad as you are experiencing in your pond once the pond matures, that is as the plants become older and microorganisms are established and older.

 

[crsublette]

Just saw this on a search around PH levels:
Excessive algae can consume high levels of carbon dioxide in the pond water and raise the pH, sometimes dangerously high.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5895150_causes-high-ph-levels-ponds_.html#ixzz2st1bAlbt

1) I wonder if all the algae in my pond is raising the PH. I did the reading at night, which can also cause the reading to be higher. 2) My water is filtered through the limestone core of the island, so its going to have a high PH anyways. I will test it around lunch time tomorrow and post the readings.

Correct.

Although, be careful when reading those articles. They always tend to be "half right" and "half wrong". It's good you are doing the homework, that is more research and studying, but just be aware that what is read may not always be correct.



1) I wonder if all the algae in my pond is raising the PH. I did the reading at night, which can also cause the reading to be higher.

Not only true for algae, but this is also true for all submersed aquatic plants. This is due to all plants, during day time due to photosynthesis still require consuming an inorganic carbon, such as carbon dioxide (CO2) or bicarbonate (HCO3-). When this consumption occurs, then there is the potential for raising the pH. This potential for a higher pH is entirely dependent on your water's alkalinity and calcium concentration. So, algae and other aquatic plants will not always raise the pH in a pond. At late afternoon or dusk is when this exchange is at its peak.

If your alkalinity and/or calcium concentrations are relatively low, then the algae and aquatic plants are more likely to raise the pH.

Since you are on a limestone island, then I think your alkalinity will be quite high with a relatively average or higher calcium concentration. If this is true, then these algas and aquatic plants will not raise the pond's pH.

This is why the KH test kit is important since it tests your alkalinity and lets you know this type of stuff.

With a pH test reading from the morning or at dawn and a pH test reading from late afternoon or dusk and a reading from the KH test kit, then this can help us determine your calcium concentration. Free calcium (Ca++) is what helps to prevent your pH from raising too high, that is dependent on many "things".


On the flip side of the coin, the process above reverses during night as the plant performs respiration, that the plant (whether algae or other aquatic plants) produce carbon dioxide potentially causing the water's pH to lower, which is dependent mainly only on the water's alkalinity.


And now you see how it comes full circle. A small glimpse in the Circle of Life of our ponds.


2) My water is filtered through the limestone core of the island, so its going to have a high PH anyways. I will test it around lunch time tomorrow and post the readings.

Most likely, but I would not assume so it is best to test still.

Best, if possible, to test once at dawn or morning and then again at late afternoon or dusk.

 

[addy1]

again great detailed response! great job charles

 

[Priscilla]

HI,

I did a reading, 1:30pm yesterday, it appears to be around 7.5 to 8 (I think more 8, my father in law thinks more 7.5). Its possible that due to lighting conditions last night, my reading could have been more in the 8.5 range than the 9. Its hard to tell with the colors. I did a reading from the hose from the well, it reads at 7ish.

Soooooo this morning I woke up to an almost empty pond! I thought I had a hole or cut in the liner - checked it, couldn't find anything. My Dad's theory is when I added a bit of water to the pond last night, I simply unplugged the pump in the well, left the hose in the pond and gravity created a syphon and pretty much emptied 75% of the pond!!!!!!

Well after searching for a hole for hours, I decided to add a bit of water and see if it ran out. It didn't. So I added a bit more, still nothing. So maybe the hose syphoned the water out ...??? I don't know. The good news is the fish are fine.

Tonight, after all day of watching the three/four inches I added, I decided to start refilling the pond. I was doing a trickle as advised, BUT my husband said he thought it would take me a week to fill the pond at the rate I was going. So I let the water flow into the pond, for about an hour, then turned it off, I will give the fish over night to adjust, then fill a bit more tomorrow while trying to adjust the liner again. I can't even begin to express my frustration!

There are clumps of algae that now form around mid day in the pond, I try to scoop them out. The roots of my floating plants are covered in a stringy type algae. I'm dealing with it all, but not thrilled. I don't think the water hyacinths are doing too well, considered they are listed as one of the worst weeds, they don't seem to be loving my pond. They have gone a bit yellow, maybe from the algae, I don't know.

Anyways, I think I am just ranting now. I was going to buy more fish today, since the pet store just got in new koi, unfortunately, I just don't have the confidence to buy them. After I pulled out all the rocks and plants, I can see the plants had started to really grow with new roots.

I've attached a few pictures showing the color of the pond, the algae clumps that float in the pond (new) and the sides of the pond (the algae is less than an inch long, although it looks longer in the photo). I still haven't covered the sides of the pond liner - sadly. But I'm working on it, I want a natural look of plants mixed with rocks, not just rocks. Plus I have to add in the bog.

Charles, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION!

 

[addy1]

When we built our deck ponds, I have the water pumped up to them via pvc from the big pond, did not even think of putting in a air gap, pump turned off water sucked right out. Yes the hose would very nicely have suction and drain the pond.

Have a check valve in the line now too, takes time to fill 70 feet of 2 inch line to get water to the deck ponds
In the winter I just pull the pump the lines drain, no freezing issues.

The short algae on the sides of the pond is actually ok algae. It helps filter the water. It has a different feel than the string algae which is tough stringy stuff and real long.

My bog full of plants pea gravel etc, keeps my pond from having green water. They suck out the nutrients from the water leave none for the algae to live on. But my bog is huge with a ton of plants, around 1/4 the size of the big pond.
I do get a tiny amount of algae on the plants, some short brown stuff, like 1/4 inch or so in length, other than that the big pond stays pretty much algae free. Even the short green stuff, carpet algae, does not grow well.
The small stream ponds, slow flow preforms get string algae, no green water, but they are fed unfiltered water from the big pond. They are shallow, a lot warmer than the big pond helps that algae grow I just leave it be, the tads, dragon fly larvae etc live in it. If it gets too thick I yank and toss some of it, usually into the big pond, the fish munch it down.

 

[Priscilla]

Addy,

I think I am getting string algae on my water hyacinths roots. My water hyacinths are not looking good. I'm posting a picture below. Not sure if you have any info on these plants - I know we are in different climates. I'm so just baffled by them not doing well, when they are considered a weed. Yet here I am in the perfect climate for them and they just don't seem to be doing well. The pond they came from is over loaded with them, to the point they are crawling up the sides of the pond onto dry land, yet I can't keep a few going. So weird! And I thought they would be GREAT water cleaners, but ......

I'm posting this comment on the water plants section as well, see if any one has any experience with them.

Priscilla

 

[addy1]

Mine in the big pond did lousy, in a small stream fishless pond they did great, stuffed in, warmer water, nutrient rich, slow moving.
When I put a rope around the ones in the big pond and made them a tight bundle of plants they did better. They like to be crowded.
String algae wraps around everything.
Some people here take them out and float them in a bucket of fertilizer and water for a while to help them out. I don't remember, do you have a good fish load? poop = food for the plants. When my pond first started I only had 4 fish, even the bog struggled, now around 200 plus the bog plants grow great. (pond around 8-10000 gallons)

With the bog I don't have a lot of nutrients left in the pond water to support the floaters. I don't keep any going now. Just a little parrots feather, some water mint and lilies, nothing else does well. I do have some penny wort floating in the big pond, but it too struggles. The bog just keeps the water to nutrient poor to support plants or algae. The lilies get a dose of pellet fertilizer when I pot them in the spring, that gets them going.

 

[Priscilla]

I have a pretty good fish load now! My in laws bought me 9 new fish! So I have about 17 fish around 4 inches and under, but with potential to grow larger. I have about 5 guppies, they already had one set of babies.

So I'd say its a pretty good load, although of the 17, 9 were added yesterday.

I asked a guy on here (Waterbug) about the water hyacinths, he thinks the fish eat the new white roots, which could be true, since I don't see many of those.tghy

Heron came by today, despite my bird death trap of mad fishing line, he was hanging on the deck. I'm so sad. I would love for little birds to come by for water ....... but alas, its not to be bird friendly. My Dad has major plans to further the bird tangle tomorrow since I added the 9 new fish. Fish are pricy here too.

Do you know anything about pond skimmers? The top of my pond seems to collect a lot of bugs (I think it maybe no see 'um's (sand flies) and bits of dead leaves from the water lettuces. Just wondering if that would help clean the top of the water. Or do I just live with the bugs?

Thanks for all your advice! I wish I could offer some back to you.

Priscilla

 

[addy1]

I am using a fishing net, gill net, the openings are 4-5 inches, hung around 3-4 feet above the pond, keeps the heron out, but lets the small birds, frogs come in and drink and bath all they want.

JW did a nice post about the netting check here
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/heron-netting-101.13205/

It works great, I had herons visiting every day, since I put up the netting they have stayed away from my pond.

I put in an external pool skimmer, it does a great job keeping the surface clean, the fish have not gotten trapped in it, occasional frog needs to be removed. I use external pumps. They do make skimmers that have submersible pumps installed in them.
The skimmer works great for our pond.

If you install one, put it on the dominate downwind side of the pond, the wind helps to blow the stuff towards the skimmer.

If you have koi they will eat up the roots of the plants, you need to protect the roots from the fish, koi, not gf. Put them in a ring with netting under the roots, check here

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/floating-planter-rings.2581/