Temperature and Feeding

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Andy, One thing to think about it your beneficial bacteria dies out below certain temperatures. You probably don't want your fish eating a lot in the winter and giving off waste if there is nothing in the pond to cycle the waste. I'm sure you can get fish to eat in the winter if you can keep the water warm enough, but you have to consider if you are creating a healthy environment for them. I take my bio-filter out every year before the winter comes and stop feeding usually a week or two before I take it out.
As cometKeith has so rightfully put about the ponds benificial bacteria and leaving them with the best pssible enviroments prior to winter and is why the 50f-10c ruling was originally put in place for us to follow.
Ok if you heat the pond and wish to go on at a temperature at which they can still eat at then that up to you and other indivudual koi keeper's and the depth of your individal wallets to cover the heating cost of the pond throughout the winter months but the majority quit at 10c

Dave
 

Meyer Jordan

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Andy, One thing to think about it your beneficial bacteria dies out below certain temperatures. You probably don't want your fish eating a lot in the winter and giving off waste if there is nothing in the pond to cycle the waste. I'm sure you can get fish to eat in the winter if you can keep the water warm enough, but you have to consider if you are creating a healthy environment for them. I take my bio-filter out every year before the winter comes and stop feeding usually a week or two before I take it out.

This is somewhat misleading. Nitrifying bacteria die at water temperatures of 32F/0C. Below 39F/4C activity is greatly reduced as temperatures fall and bacterial growth ceases. Since very few ponds freeze solid, there is always bacterial action both by autorophs and heterotrophs.
 

Meyer Jordan

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There you go Andy here you have the BKKS Do's and Donts you'll note that their advice when feeding koi is to stop at a temperature of 10c for the BKKS :-

http://www.cambridgeshire-koi-club.org.uk/BKKS Basic Rules.pdf

Here is also an interesting rtile written by Chris Neaves of South Africa and is a much more in depth study of koi and temperature plus its effects on them.
You'll find Chris looks at temperature in depth and strangely the advice given by him is again the same 10c

http://koi4u.co.za/index.php?option...:water-temperature-and-koi&catid=9&Itemid=186

http://camelliakoi.org/resources.html

Personally Andy I wouldnt feed below the advice and the information given in all three the above links the last being from a club run on AKCA rules.
Again my friend you'll find that the advice is the same 50f or 10c, which just so happens to be exactly the same advice given from three separate continents by three koi organizations BKKS, SAKKS, AKCA.
As to what other individuals do..... well thats up to them to explain not I.... personally we play it by the rules :happy:

Dave

In reference to Chris Neaves' article-
No disrespect to Chris, but I am troubled by the complete lack of any citations of scientific literature to substantiate some of his statements.
In particular, he states "As water temperatures decline body activity decreases. At or around 12°C the koi's metabolism is reduced to the point where the immune system has virtually shut down." I question the temperature of 12C/54F being used as being the benchmark temperature. Immune function is directly related to metabolic rate. If we are to believe Chris' statement then we have to infer that the fish's metabolism has also "virtually shut down" at this temperature. He then continues by stating "Different koi have different tolerances. Some will be more affected by temperatures than others." which somewhat contradicts the previous statement and seems more of an anecdotal note.
 

koiguy1969

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popular advice is to stop feeding at 50*f, but many koi food manufactures say to merely switch to a wheatgerm food at that temp for its high digestability.. and feed down to 39*f. .. I always stopped at 50* and let the fish feed on the pond. but its always 2"-4" fish left outside. larger fish and most others winter inside in the basement pond, so these recommendations have never mattered to me anyways.
 
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In reference to Chris Neaves' article-
No disrespect to Chris, but I am troubled by the complete lack of any citations of scientific literature to substantiate some of his statements.
In particular, he states "As water temperatures decline body activity decreases. At or around 12°C the koi's metabolism is reduced to the point where the immune system has virtually shut down." I question the temperature of 12C/54F being used as being the benchmark temperature. Immune function is directly related to metabolic rate. If we are to believe Chris' statement then we have to infer that the fish's metabolism has also "virtually shut down" at this temperature. He then continues by stating "Different koi have different tolerances. Some will be more affected by temperatures than others." which somewhat contradicts the previous statement and seems more of an anecdotal note.
Sadly I cannot answer you there Meyer I'm not the epert never have been I just go of what they say Chris would be the best person to ask in that area , all I dd was look at the advice of three Differing governibg bodies in the koi world as a comparison to see if their advice differed which it didnt.
As to the regional variations Meyer, may he be mearly stating that koi who are bred in differing climes , tend to react to cold at a faster or slower rate than say their Israeli cousins or Singapore, Japan, Malayisia, China and the miriad of other breeding centres supplying the koi and Garden pond industry from all around the world just to mention but a few.
A tale of one of your fellow Floridians Meyer "one day I was walking the streach of Florida coast by the US Naval Airstation Mayport Florida on a bitter cold day, when I happened upon these crazy people using canoes to surf with .
One of the guys came out of the water for a coffee and sandwich so I approached him and asked if he was crazy it being so cold and all" .
"I replied that the temperature was acctually quiite warm for that part of the year and the temperature we were surfing in was the equivulent of that of a mild British summer , true story that Meyer from my distant youth as a young sailor on his second visit to the US aboard the Capital British Ship HMS ARK ROYAL :happy:
So you see, even humans feel cold differently to others ,.
As such then it stands to reason, that koi bred in differing Regions around the world would react differently.
Have you ever had a koi that hated Soft Water ?
"We had one koi bought from Yeovil a Hard Water Area and during QT it suddenly lost all its Yellow pigmentation , the reason we later learned from the Dealer , was we have a Soft water Pond , it quite simply didnt like the water.......so if differences in waters Chemical signatures that can effect different koi in differing ways?......then surely its logical to say , that differences of temperature can also effect different koi in differing ways also and as such then surely he would be correct in saying so yes ?

popular advice is to stop feeding at 50*f, but many koi food manufactures say to merely switch to a wheatgerm food at that temp for its high digestability.. and feed down to 39*f. .. I always stopped at 50* and let the fish feed on the pond. but its always 2"-4" fish left outside. larger fish and most others winter inside in the basement pond, so these recommendations have never mattered to me anyways.

Why all of a sudden the change of advice by the food manufactureres , I know not Koiguy , we cant see a difference can you my friend ?
However if what Chris Neaves is saying is true?, are we not then wrong to feed the koi , they are our pets are they not ?.
I dont know about the US Laws Governing animals but in the UK we have a tough new set of animal welfare rules" As such we have a duty of care to our koi yes" ????
It then leaves us with a quandry who do we trust "the feed companies or koi higherarchy and who is acctually right"?

Dave
 
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koiguy1969

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Why all of a sudden the change of advice by the food manufactureres , I know not Koiguy , we cant see a difference can you my friend ?
However if what Chris Neaves is saying is true?, are we not then wrong to feed the koi , they are our pets are they not ?.
I dont know about the US Laws Governing animals but in the UK we have a tough new set of animal welfare rules" As such we have a duty of care to our koi yes" ????
It then leaves us with a quandry who do we trust "the feed companies or koi higherarchy and who is acctually right"?
Dave

laws or no laws, you should feel a moral obligation to be a good steward over your animals. so I err on the safe side and quit feeding at a water temp of 50*f anything outside. there's plenty of algeas and such for them to forage on if they should hunger. but most if not all mine winter indoors, and are fed year round. but here is a picture of the back of some koi food.
001 (4).JPG
 
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Again - the temperature you should concern yourself with is the water temperature, not the air temperature. I think people get confused about that.
 
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Which people?

Well, not to pick on the OP, but he said "I know i'm not surposed to feed the fish once the temp drops below +10C, which it has done already, but at the moment the temp is varying and going back up to +15C.... it's expected to drop again, but no one is sure when." I guessed from that large of a temperature variation (and the fact he said "it's expected to drop again" by which I guessed he meant the weather was reported to be changing) that he was referring to air temp, not water temp. It takes my pond a string of days of warmer weather to go from 50 degrees F to almost 60 degrees F. The same is true for the reverse - my pond stayed at a consistent 54-55 degrees F even when we had a week of below 32 degrees F at night. Do your pond temps differ that dramatically down and up and back down again over a few days time?

And I guess I try to consider that people who never comment still read these posts. Maybe a clarification will help someone else along the way. I have a tendency towards light bulb moments myself.
 
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Lisak1, I agree. It's funny that people have so many types of ponds/watergardens in so many climates and other varying conditions that we can all disagree and all be right at the same time. When i said the beneficial bacteria die off I was referring to the type of pond I have in cold weather climate. It takes my pond a full month to cycle in late spring every year to restore it's beneficial bacteria. I do know of another local pond owner that heated his very large pond and fed them almost the whole winter and many of the fish became diseased. I would think the mainstream thinking is you don't want your fish giving off a substantial amount of waste if there is nothing in the pond or filtration system that will convert the waste to non toxic substances. So for someone like me I wouldn't want to feed my fish in the winter. One they don't need the food and two why take any risks with my fish.
 
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Both water temperature and air temperature are things I record daily anytme of the year, a force of habit from the military and life at sea, but it does come in useful Lisa at least you know what to expect at certain temperatures and as to how it effects the pond and your fish .
Nowadays Lisa , we only need to go out for the water perameters in winter, why?....... because we have remotes outside reporting first to our weather station also giving us a weather forcast weather air temperature and water temperature are closely linked
We also have our pond remote reporting directly to the front room, so it gives us an all round idea of whats going on both using both mediums .
Preaty soon there will be a device for use on the pond that will give us all the readings remotely on our water perameters, aint that really cool ...NOT. :(
They already infact have one part way there however I dont like their terms, namely being tied into a company on a mothly basis

http://www.seneye.com/store/seneye-pond.html

But eventually it'll be worth fitting something like this , cheaper too if we wait a while before buying :)

Dave
 
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